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How can this be?

by zdog (Priest)
on Jun 27, 2000 at 00:19 UTC ( #19908=perlmeditation: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

Recently I have been thinking:

As of now, I have a total of 43 writeups and I have 215 XP and I just recently grew in status to Level 5 (Monk) on this site. But do I deserve to be at this level. I have only been learning Perl since June 3, 2000 and really only know the basic I/O. My writeups have usually been in the Perl Monks Discussion section and questions in the Seekers of Perl widom section since they require the least Perl knowledge. I have only answered questions once or twice and get most of my XP from voting every day and by writing writeups that are practically useless and just say "Good idea.", "Bad idea." Most of my writeups, or even all, are less than ten lines each and I usually vote ++ on anything that is more than ten lines because I get intimidated and usually don't read it. Any code that I see that is more than ten lines, I usually don't read because I know it would take hours for me to decifer and it makes feel bad when someone says that it was "Just a quick hack."

So, do I deserve the status that I have? I don't know. Do any of you feel that your status does not reflect your knowledge of Perl and contributions to the site (below or above expectations)? Tell me what you think.

--Zenon Zabinski

Comment on How can this be?
RE: How can this be?
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Jun 27, 2000 at 01:21 UTC
    One thing Everything2 does is put a writeup requirement for each experience level. That's good, in some ways, because it makes it harder to reach higher levels just by voting.

    It would be interesting to find out my reputation score... are most of my points from voting bonuses or from reputation?

RE: How can this be?
by ivory (Pilgrim) on Jun 27, 2000 at 01:44 UTC
    I guess it comes down to what you want to do. I mean, you can keep voting on writeups just to gain XPs but why are you doing it? What is the importance of gaining XP if you're not learning anything? I, too, am a newbie when it comes to Perl, and I like the perlmonks site a lot. I feel like I learn things here in a fun way, and I feel like the XP system is a sort of incentive to not take too many days off from learning perl. I guess I feel like my XP and level (both low), do reflect my Perl proficiency and effort on the site, but I wonder why you want the XPs so badly... --Ivory
      I don't want more XP, instead I am saying that I feel that I have too much XP for the amount of knowledge that I have. (My knowledge is too little to have this much.)

      -- zdog (Zenon Zabinski)
         Go Bells!! ''

        I agree, I think that more emphisis should be put on the number of posts that you have and now _they_ fair, in turn... but I've only been here a while so.. whatever!
      Like you zdog, I'm not a Perl guru, and I've had similar doubts about my own modest level increases here at the monastery. But, as kapper points out below, XP reflects PM community involvement, as well as Perl proficiency.

      The only thing I question is "usually vote ++ on anything that is more than ten lines because I get intimidated and usually don't read it". Ya know, you don't have to use all your votes each day :^)

      I'm not intimidated by advanced posts from master monks like httptech or lhoward or ???, but I also try to post only when I can add something of value.

true zen, baby
by mcwee (Pilgrim) on Jun 27, 2000 at 04:49 UTC
    Maybe you're not the most Perl-knowledgable Monk in the Monastary, but I'd certainly say that you've achieved a high level of self-awareness and reflection. I mean, maybe it isn't your goal, exactly, but I think that you're on the threshhold of an understanding that transcends understanding the programming language (although, to be fair, anything that seems to transcend an understanding of Perl is really just adding depth to your understanding of Perl.): You've made some progress in understanding yourself and your context in a system. Maybe you haven't attained clarity, but you've really recognized its existence.

    Point being:

  • There is understanding more important than understanding perl
  • Understanding which at first seems to just be about life, and have nothing to do with Perl, is really about both.

    I'm serious, here. Am I making sense, or just sounding creepy?

    The Autonomic Pilot; it's FunkyTown, babe.

RE: How can this be?
by BigJoe (Curate) on Jun 27, 2000 at 05:42 UTC
    In my mind if you are using your votes on posts that means you have read the questions and replys which in turn builds your knowledge base. The more questions and answers you read the more in depth with the perl language you should become. There are always exceptions though.

    I took my A+ Cert. a few years ago when I was doing Computer Repair. I didn't read the books for preparation, I just took the test. Meanwhile another worker there with no Technical knowledge read the books he got at Barnes and Nobles and also passed the test. Does that make the Test bad?

    Second Example. A co-worker that I currently work with has been called an ASP programmer. After talking with him I found out that he has never wrote ASP but he takes other peoples ASP code and removes the names and minor cosmetics and gives it to my supervisors as his. They wonder why it takes so much longer for me to develope my code.

    More food for Thaught

    BigJoe

    If I were getting paid based on XP or lower than my co-workers then I would yell.(But I get paid hourly, hehe)
RE: How can this be?
by buzzcutbuddha (Chaplain) on Jun 27, 2000 at 15:45 UTC
    Every time you read a post and you think about what the post means, or how the post works, you gain experience. That is why classroom learning works.
    If you see it enough, or you read it enough, it will stick, and the next time that you are faced with a similar situation that someone else posted about, you can say
    Chromatic showed us we can do it this way, so I am going to use that, or BBQ posted this snippet, and if I modify that way then I can use, and you're on
    your way to 'real' XP. Part of gaining Monk level is just showing up and absorbing the information on the site.
RE: How can this be?
by ZZamboni (Curate) on Jun 27, 2000 at 18:49 UTC
    On one hand, this reflects a problem that has already been discussed here. Namely, as the user base grows, nodes very quickly get reputations of 15 or higher just by the sheer number of people voting (compare to just a few weeks ago, when a reputation of 15 was enough to put a node among the Best nodes), which adds XP points to the authors very quickly. There were a few good proposals on how to deal with this, but I don't think vroom has expressed inclination to any of them.

    On the other hand, in martial arts (Karate in my case) a black belt only means "master of the basics", at which point you can actually "start learning karate". If we make an analogy into the PerlMonks world, we could say that getting a level of Monk (or even higher) only means you have started to master the basic concepts. From there, you can start developing towards true enlightening and knowledge.

    I know. I'm sounding creepy too :-)

    --ZZamboni

      I don't think that you are sounding creepy at all. I think that you have a very good point. Programming is certainly not the easiest thing in the world, so perhaps you are right...a high level denotes "readiness to learn."

      redmist
RE: How can this be?
by kapper (Chaplain) on Jun 27, 2000 at 23:33 UTC

    Should your XP level really reflect your Perl knowledge?

    Shouldn't it rather reflect your participation in building the community that the monastry is, and will be?

    I myself am in no way a Perl expert, my native tounge at the momemt is Java & PHP, but i value Perl for it's extreme practical usefullnes for some applications and enjoy just beeing part of the monastry.....

    ...on some days, a lot of wisdom flows through the monastry, most of wich can increase your general coding skills.. not just your Perl skills!

    oh.. and before i forget, yes something should be done on the voting system.. a users XP level can usefully reflect many different things, but one thing it probably shouldn't reflect, is the total number of users in the monastry =)

RE: How can this be?
by redmist (Deacon) on Jun 28, 2000 at 04:46 UTC
    Perhaps we can give a different value or weight to an XP point depending if it is in a certain section. For example, if a post is in the discussions area, every "point" given to it will only *really* count as half a point. Meanwhile, in Seekers of Perl Wisdom, and XP point is an XP point and thats it.

    redmist
RE: How can this be?
by mrmick (Curate) on Jul 03, 2000 at 18:16 UTC
    If you are learning while reading the posts and gaining experience points, I don't see that you have any problems. Although I'm new here, it's my understanding that this is a community of benevolent Perl hackers/programmers who want to learn of new ways to solve a particular problem and maybe contribute some of their ideas.
    Just keep playing with Perl - it's fun and before you know it you'll have the confidence to submit some solutions.

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