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Re: Ignorant Article

by ignatz (Vicar)
on Feb 18, 2003 at 22:34 UTC ( #236418=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Ignorant Article

Am I missing something here? Quoting Lincoln Stein... not a source that I've heard characterized as ignorant. Recommending that one learns more about CGI's security problems. And the ignorance of this is...?

You're going to have to come up with something better than "Yer Stupid" to get onto the debate team there bucko.

P.S. This one's a keeper for the angry threads list on my homenode. Congrats to everyone!

()-()
 \"/
  `


Comment on Re: Ignorant Article
Re: Re: Ignorant Article
by steves (Curate) on Feb 18, 2003 at 23:08 UTC

    One meaning of the word ignorant is "unaware or uninformed." Despite the obvious knee-jerk reaction most of us have when that word is directed at us, I think it applies here. There is an unawareness and uninformed-ness (okay, so that's not a word ... call me ignorant) in statements that blindly link Perl, CGI, HTTP, and HTML without clearly distinguishing which is responsible for what. There is supposedly a more complete article that puts it all in context but I have been unable to access that today -- the referenced site is down. Further, I'd argue that as a writer concerned about this bigger perspective, it's unresponsible to let it be narrowed down into an inaccurate piece of writing if that's what happened. It's kind of like someone taking your code, slicing pieces out then posting it as yours. If you knew about it and let it happen, shame on you. If you didn't know about it, you'd at least direct your anger at the editor, not towards those questioning the validity of your code.

    Things like this don't anger me. I was more amused. If my reply came across as angry, I apologize. I think we should question most things. That's how we learn. This article, starting off with a title of CGI Sucks, reads like one big troll to me. Maybe we shouldn't have taken the bait, but what's a day without a little controversy?

      I have psoted links to the entire article on WDVL so you can see the greater context. Please go there, I would appreciate it.

      As for being unresponsible, please understand this....

      WDVL is in no way associated with me. They are one of **dozens** of sites that has downloaded my work and republished it.

      Part of my own intellectual property agreement with the world is that I have none. I encourage people to take and use whatever they want from me. They are free to cite me or not. They are free to plagiarize. They are free to reformat. They are free to use it to make money, to learn from, or throw away. I believe that information wants to be free and that nobody has the right to ensalve it.

      There are pros and cons to this philosophy as there are to any philiospohy.

      One of the cons is that I lose control of the information I put out. Although WDVL certainly has no copyright over my work, if they want to put that there and reformat it, I have no beef with them.

      It is sad that they do not update when I make changes (cause like everyone I make lots of mistakes and need to revise my work from time to time.)

      I have requested that they update the text, but to no avail and to me it is not worth fighting over as, like I said, there are dozens of similar cases. For me to personally fight this is too much.

      Over the last 6 years, believe me, I have spent time trying and trying to get these mirrors to either shut down, or mirror using software that allows them to constantly keep source control in tact.

      But this is only sosuccessful. I currently have mirrors in over 6 countries that simply never responded.

      As a responsible author, what do I do?

      Keep in mind that I have a life, and a company to run, a baby to look after, and all the usual trappings of reality.

      Should I hire a lawyer to sue?

      In the end, I have honestly done my best to get the information under control using social means. But because I do not believe in force, I am not willing to use it. If someone uses my work in a way that hurts, while I do feel responsible, I also am to some degree powerless to avoid it.

      Telling me that I have a responsibility for keeping tabs with a ten thousand people who either use my code or use my writing is a bit like telling Dr. Dre to keep tabs on every suburbian white kid listening to 'Fuck the Police'.

      I think that is actually wrong headed.

      But I also respect your opinion. This is not a clear cut issue. I don't think that there is a clear right or wrong answer.

      In my own life, I have just tried to counter misuse with as much positivity as possible.

      Now your comment about the title is pretty good. It was a title that set within the context of the article, I think, makes sense. But, it is something that can be easily taken out of context. I used it originally as a stylistic tool in the writing but when reauoted....it can be easily misinterpreted.

      But isn't that the case for every writer?

        Part of my own intellectual property agreement with the world is that I have none. I encourage people to take and use whatever they want from me. They are free to cite me or not. They are free to plagiarize. They are free to reformat. They are free to use it to make money, to learn from, or throw away. I believe that information wants to be free and that nobody has the right to ensalve it.

        That's cool if that's what you want to do.

        Should I hire a lawyer to sue?

        Even in context it is given as an option you choose not to use. It seems to me the 2 quotes are in serious contradiction with each other. Either people can "take and use whatever they want from me", in which case you reliquish all rights, or you have the option (repulsive to you or not) to sue them for abusing you IP, meaning you HAVE reatined some rights.

        btw, thanks for coming out, this thread has been a great read. And whether or not you planned to, you have rejoined the perl community for at least one thread, welcome back!

        The thing with this site, even if many don't agree with you...the discussion stays around and many may look @ CGI in a new way because of it.

        "Nothing is sure but death and taxes" I say combine the two and its death to all taxes!

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