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Re: Re: Re: Module::Build and the PPM

by barbie (Deacon)
on May 19, 2004 at 08:55 UTC ( #354558=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Re: Module::Build and the PPM
in thread Module::Build and the PPM

Barbie is on crack.
The paranoia and anger in this whole thread is really wacko.
Only in your post. If people happen to disagree with your point of view, resorting to personal attacks and vitriol only does a disservice to the discussion. At no point in my original post did I personally attack you, Ken or any of the other developers, so why do you feel the need to unleash your venom on me? For the record, despite my past, I don't do and have never done drugs.
Module::Build has nothing to do with people uploading PPMs to CPAN.
I think you need to carefully think that reasoning through. People use Module::Build to create distributions so they can distribute them to a wider audience. Part of that distribution process, in many cases, involves uploading to CPAN. Why should it be automatically assumed that someone who creates a ppm package, using M::B, will not follow the same route as they have for other distributions? While it might not directly upload to CPAN, it is part of the process that people use to upload their modules onto CPAN.
If people are uploading PPMs to CPAN and this is causing problems, then the person doing the uploading should be contacted and/or PAUSE/CPAN should be modified.
Why deal with the symptoms, which could cause a myriad of unforeseen problems, rather than look at the root of the problem? Blankly assuming you are right and everyone else is wrong, is not going to solve any issues there might be.
I don't think anyone working on Module::Build did use the naming scheme as some sort of "Perl domination scheme"
...assuming Ken & co. have some horrible plot.
I never said they did, or implied they did. I said that the discussion, both on the M::B list (it would appear) and to a wider audience, was not very well thought through, and the ideas perhaps too quickly implemented. I actually think the bigger aims of M::B are worth achieving, but the steps getting there are increasingly leading to frustration from the wider community. I also wanted to know whether my setup was an isolated case, or whether others has experienced similar problems. It would appear that they do. If I was to ask on the M::B list whether M::B was the latest and greatest, I wouldn't have expected a balanced view. I was hoping that those that have had problems were more likely to be residing here than on a module list, for which they have little or no interest in joining.
Have any of the people doing the complaining in this thread actually chimed in on the Module::Build mailing list?
Wildly claiming I am "on crack", have a "fevered imagination" and an "overwhelming ego" is nothing short of a personal attack. I am extremely doubtful Ken and the other developers share such vitriolic ideas towards me, and they are not deserving of this discussion. Inferring doubts over my mental stability and implying I'm a drug addict is both personally insulting and insulting to the community and M::B developers. Why should I join a mailing list to seek further discussion and hopefully a resolution, when I am now likely to be flamed with personal abuse, which has nothing to do with the problems of M::B and anyone's efforts to find a solution? I would suggest you take a long hard look at how you approach your responses in future and leave the personal insults alone.

If you want people to get involved with the development, there are better ways of achieving this than your efforts here in this thread.

--
Barbie | Birmingham Perl Mongers user group | http://birmingham.pm.org/


Comment on Re: Re: Re: Module::Build and the PPM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Module::Build and the PPM
by autarch (Hermit) on May 19, 2004 at 17:20 UTC

    I think you need to carefully think that reasoning through. People use Module::Build to create distributions so they can distribute them to a wider audience. Part of that distribution process, in many cases, involves uploading to CPAN. Why should it be automatically assumed that someone who creates a ppm package, using M::B, will not follow the same route as they have for other distributions? While it might not directly upload to CPAN, it is part of the process that people use to upload their modules onto CPAN.

    I don't see how M::B will ever be able to create PPMs if the functionality isn't just put in there in some form. I still think it's a big jump to go from that to assuming people will upload PPMs to CPAN, and an even bigger jump to think that this should be discussed by the M::B developers before implementing the functionality. When I wrote some of the initial PPM/PPD-related code way back when, my only interest was in trying to make it easier to make PPMs/PPDs for the DateTime modules.

    Why deal with the symptoms, which could cause a myriad of unforeseen problems, rather than look at the root of the problem? Blankly assuming you are right and everyone else is wrong, is not going to solve any issues there might be.

    But there have always been tools to create PPMs. The only difference is that now a tool that creates regular CPAN-ish tarballs includes that functionality. This is not a huge radical change. Regardless, if PPMs don't belong on CPAN at all, there not much to be done besides asking people not to upload them there.

    Wildly claiming I am "on crack", have a "fevered imagination" and an "overwhelming ego" is nothing short of a personal attack.

    Well, I only wildly claimed you were on crack. The fevered imagination I attributed to demerphq, and, the "overwhelming ego" quote you've taken way out of context. I wrote "instead of assuming Ken & co. have some horrible plot, or are motivated by some sort of overwhelming ego ...". That wasn't directed at you or anyone else. If you want to be offended, at least be offended at what I actually said. I'm not even particularly irritated at you, though I think your original post is off the mark, since this problem has a lot more to do with one person uploading something to CPAN than Module::Build. I am irritated at the various responses which seem to just go along with that assumption and then blame that on the fact that there is some sort of attempt by Module::Build to take over the Perl community, or some other ridiculous theory.

    As I've said, if there's a problem with the PPM generation of Module::Build, I think that people who actually use Windows would be greatly welcomed if they have ideas and/or code to contribute, because I know that I, for one, have no freaking clue about Windows, despite having written some of the PPD-related code.

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