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sauoq's scratchpad

by sauoq (Abbot)
on Jun 03, 2004 at 16:33 UTC ( #360256=scratchpad: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

cblogparser for castaway (Thanks!)

#!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; @ARGV = grep { !/^\s*\||\|\s*$/ } @ARGV; # Don't allow pipes. use Getopt::Std; my %opt; getopts('t', \%opt); my $TIMESTAMPS = $opt{ t }; die "Usage: $0 [-t] file ...\n -t Add timestamps.\n" unless @ARGV; require Text::Wrap; while ( my $line = <> ) { $line .= $_ until ($_ = <>) =~ /^\s*\];/; # Append lines until we +find end. $line .= $_; # Append that last line. $line =~ s/^[^[]*//; # Prep for eval'ing. my $aref = eval $line; die $@ if $@; pretty_print_message($_) for (@$aref); } sub pretty_print_message { my $msg = shift; my $txt = $msg->{ text }; my $out = $TIMESTAMPS ? "[$msg->{ time }] " : ''; $txt =~ s/&(lt|gt|amp);/${{lt => '<', gt => '>', amp => '&'}}{$1}/ +g; unless ( $txt =~ s!^/me !! ) { $out .= "<$msg->{ author }> "; } else { $out .= "* $msg->{ author } "; } my $indent = length $out; $out .= $txt; print Text::Wrap::wrap('', ' ' x $indent, $out), "\n"; }

Closure Games

An example of a closure returning a reference so it can sort of be used as an lvalue. (Note that I don't necessarily recommend this technique for anything in particular. No matter what the problem is, it is like there is a better way to do it than like this... :-)

{ my $c = 0; sub counter { $c++; \$c } } print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3; ${counter()} = 0; print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3; ${counter()} = 99; print ${counter()}, "\n" for 1..3;

And here's an example of generating closures which return refs to their data so that they can be sort of be used as lvalues...

# Use a sub to generate closures to be used as settable counters. sub new_counter { my $c = 0; sub { $c++; \$c } } my $c1 = new_counter; print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3; ${$c1->()} = 0; print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3; ${$c1->()} = 99; print '$c1: ' . ${$c1->()}, "\n" for 1..3; # Slightly less unwieldy syntax... my $c2 = new_counter; print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3; ${&$c2} = 0; print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3; ${&$c2} = 99; print '$c2: ' . ${&$c2}, "\n" for 1..3;

Make the closure an lvalue anonymous sub and return the scalar rather than a reference to it and you can manufacture settable counters that have an even nicer syntax...

sub new_lvalue_counter { my $c = 0; return sub : lvalue { $c++; $c } } my $c3 = new_lvalue_counter; print &$c3, "\n" for 1..3; &$c3 = 10; print &$c3, "\n" for 1..3;

So. That's not as neat as a straight lvalue sub, but it gives you as many as you want.... Here's another way to get more than one (with all of the neatness of using a single lvalue sub) but with some additional maintenance problems:

{ my @c; sub counter : lvalue { my $i = shift; $c[$i]++; $c[$i] } } print counter(0), "\n" for 1..3; counter(0) = 10; print counter(1), "\n" for 1..3; counter(1) = 100; print counter(0), "\n"; print counter(1), "\n";

The code:

#!/usr/bin/perl -wl use strict; my @good = qw( 0e0 0 +0 -0 1. 0.14 .14 1.24e5 24e5 -24e-5); my @bad = ('', qw( 2.3. 2.3.4 1..2 .1.1 a.1 a1.1 .1a 1.a 1.1a 1a.1 1. +a1)); my $pattern = qr! [+-]? (?: \d*? )? (?: (?<=\d)\.? | \.?(?=\d) ) (?: \d*?)? (?: \d[Ee] (?: [+-]?\d+ ) )? !ox; print 'GOOD Tests'; print /$pattern/ ? ' ': 'no ', "match: '$_'" for @good; print 'BAD Tests'; print /$pattern/ ? ' ': 'no ', "match: '$_'" for @bad;

And the output:

GOOD Tests match: '0e0' match: '0' match: '+0' match: '-0' match: '1.' match: '0.14' match: '.14' match: '1.24e5' match: '24e5' match: '-24e-5' BAD Tests no match: '' match: '2.3.' match: '2.3.4' match: '1..2' match: '.1.1' match: 'a.1' match: 'a1.1' match: '.1a' match: '1.a' match: '1.1a' match: '1a.1' match: '1.a1'

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<S_Shrum> our? never seen that one...Kewl...I'll research and impleme +nt if that does the trick...thanks <submersible_toaster> think of it as our package var , and my lexical + var <submersible_toaster> anyone fighting the good fight with Mail::IMAPCl +ient ? <PodMaster> [Tutorials] * S_Shrum wonders why anyone would buy a submersible toaster? Hmmmm.. +... * kodo thinks about if he ever used our but can't remember a single ca +se <submersible_toaster> [PodMaster] was that directed at me, ? <i>Tutorials</i> <S_Shrum> bo yea! That works! <S_Shrum> makes sense...my / our...I use MY all the time...shoulda jus +t guessed <PodMaster> no ~ s_shrum <3dan> [id://105446] is a good place for further reading <sauoq> [submersible_toaster] Better to think of it as "our lexically scoped global variable" <submersible_toaster> but when does it go out of scope ? <graq> Does anyone know any nice examples of modules that use DBI to s +etup database modules for use in CGI scripts? <sauoq> Well, outside of use strict vars, there is really no reason fo +r it... it doesn't exactly go out of scope... It just requires a package name when it isn't in the scope of the our decl. <sauoq> [submersible_toaster]: &lt;code&gt;perl -Mstrict -wle '{our $f +oo=1} prin t $foo'&lt;/code&gt; <sauoq> Then try the same thing, but &lt;code&gt;print $main::foo&lt;/ +code&gt; <sauoq> And if you are starting to wonder what "our" is good for... re +ad [Why is 'our' good?] ... you're in good company. :-) <submersible_toaster> ahHAH! <submersible_toaster> ++[sauoq] thankyou for clearing that up. <submersible_toaster> What is our good for. I could make a recommendat +ion for Mail::IMAPClient but I am yet to determine exactly WTF is going on in there. <merlyn> "our" is a lexical declaration for package variables <merlyn> I talk about that in my alpaca book <theorbtwo> [merlyn], do you come up with any place where our is bette +r then use vars, other then that the syntax is closer to my? <sauoq> all paco book? <merlyn> better in that it can initialize, yes. <sauoq> err [paco]? * theorbtwo notes that alpaca yarn is sooo sooooft. * theorbtwo starts to read the sample chapter, and chokes when the ver +y first paragraph implies that a reference isn't a scalar pr +etty firmly. * 3dan tries to remove the alpaca hairball from [theorbtwo]'s throat <merlyn> where's that? <theorbtwo> Uh, 3ch, in the two introductory paragraphs. (I'd quote, +but I'd just be quoting the whole para anyway.) <Alexander> i cannot remember - can i print an entire array to a file +with just &lt;code&gt;print FILE @array;&lt;/code&gt; --? <sauoq> Well, you say that it isn't a job for one of those three... it +'s a job for a reference. (or similar.) It's obvious to me that you + just dumbed it down a bit. Pedantry isn't always good for learning. <castaway> yes you can <Alexander> :-) <kodo> Alexander: yes but why don't you try it out yourself? <Arguile> "A reference fits wherever a scalar fits. It can go..." Pg.7 + P3 <Alexander> because this is the last thing i need add to the script be +fore it is complete and i can goto bed <merlyn> right. I think I go to great pains to be the opposite of wha +t [theorbtwo] is noting <Arguile> I'd say making that distinction is probably good for a learn +ing book. * theorbtwo shrugs. <merlyn> A reference is not a scalar, but merely fits wherever a scala +r fits. <merlyn> well, almost everywhere. it can't be the key of a hash <theorbtwo> I'd instead say that a reference is a special type of scal +ar. <merlyn> [theorbtwo] - what precisely is your problem? <merlyn> No, it's not a special type of scalar. <sauoq> Well, I do see how it could read that way... Saying a referenc +e can go wherever a scalar goes falls just a tad short of saying "be +cause a reference is in fact a scalar." But I'm sure you say that somewhere later... You do, right? <merlyn> it's not quite a scalar. it's neither a string nor a number +nor undef. <castaway> (neither can some scalars .9 <merlyn> a reference is <i>not</i> a scalar. every. <merlyn> errr "ever" <merlyn> a scalar can be used as a hash key, for example. <merlyn> equating references with scalars is more damaging than useful <theorbtwo> No, a string can be used as a hash key. References can't, because while they are scalars, they aren't strings. <castaway> with binary data? <merlyn> but "a reference fits nearly everywhere a scalar fits" gives +a useful storage model <merlyn> I think you have been misled, [theorbtwo] <theorbtwo> (Trying to use undef as a hash key results in actualy usin +g the empty string, it appears.) <merlyn> i don't know anyone on P5P that would say "a reference <i>is< +/i> a scalar" <sauoq> "A scalar may contain one single value in any of three differe +nt flavors: a number, a string, or a reference." <merlyn> undef as a hash key uses "" instead, yes. <sauoq> Quoting from [perldoc://perldata]... * castaway quotes the Camel on scalars: A scalar always contains a sin +gle value. This may be a number, string, or a reference to anot +her piece of data. <theorbtwo> I simply state the rule as "a hash key is a string, not a scalar", which rules out refs and undefs nicely, and leave +s a clean mental model. * castaway grins at [sauoq] <merlyn> I'm trying to capture the semantics, but perhaps not using th +e terminology that casual usage would lead you to, perhaps. * sauoq notes that's because hash keys are stringified... that happens + with references too. <merlyn> I don't necessarily view the Camel as the final definition of terminology. I use usage on P5P instead. <sauoq> And you can use them as hash keys... you just can't use hash k +eys as references. <theorbtwo> Oh. I use usage here, more or less, but mostly what makes sense to me. <merlyn> in any event, I'm presenting a model for learning. that shou +ld not get in your way... just move along... <theorbtwo> And what produces expectation most in line with what &lt;code&gt;perl&lt;/code&gt; does. <sauoq> Why? Because hash keys always hold "strings." Not numbers, not scalars, not references... strings. * theorbtwo shrugs -- no matter how good the Alpaca was, I wouldn't bu +y it -- it doesn't attempt to teach material not in Camel, whic +h I have, and like. <merlyn> [theorbtwo] - fine, that's not a tutorial book for you. and I + bet you didn't use the llama either. but both of them are useful + for people that are not as smart as you <sauoq> I might have bought it several years ago had it been out then. +.. I think I've probably mastered the material pretty well by now though. :-) <Arguile> I don't equate Alpca (from what I've seen of it) with Camel +at all. Camel is a reference + some explanation. Alpaca == tuto +rial (correct me if I'm wrong [merlyn]). <merlyn> many thousands - no millions, of people have found the llama useful. I suspect most of them will find the alpaca useful t +oo. <merlyn> yes, the camel is a reference book. the llama + alpaca = tuto +rial books <theorbtwo> Sorry, [merlyn]. I don't mean to diss your teaching style +; it's just different then mine. * sauoq has the pink llama on his shelf... It was the first book I bou +ght on perl. And thank you [merlyn] for a gentle introduction... ( +and you're welcome... because I did -purchase- the book. ;-) <merlyn> there's nothing in the llama and alpaca that isn't covered in + the camel - but just in a different way. <sauoq> I have the pink camel on my shelf too. I got that about a week later. <merlyn> and nearly everyone who has learned Perl seems to have learne +d it from the llama. that's cool froeme. <theorbtwo> Noddage, [merlyn]. I wouldn't say that the camel isn't a tutorial, just not a tutorial for beginning programmers. <sauoq> It taught me all I wanted to know about perl4... so thanks for + that too, [merlyn]... and you're welcome again. <Arguile> Pink Camel? <merlyn> so [theorbtwo] - I have no problem with you learning from reference books. just realize that others need more handhold +ing, and there's nothing wrong with that. <theorbtwo> [arguile], the first editions had pink, rather the cyan, covers. <merlyn> no, there's really nothing in the Camel that is a "tutorial" +in the traditional sense. it's merely the manpages republished. more reference than anythign else. <castaway> (Camel++) <merlyn> but for those who want a tutorial, llama + alpaca is definite +ly the track to process. <theorbtwo> [merlyn], I understand that -- it's just that I prefer to +teach things such that I refine, rather then break, my students mental models later. <theorbtwo> Then again, I don't teach much, and never in large groups. <merlyn> [theorbtwo] - someday, you'll notice what I did as a blessing +, not a curse. :) <sauoq> So... then I got the second edition camel... and that was my b +ible while learning about perl's OO brew and all sorts of nifty thi +ngs about perl5... so thank you one last time [merlyn]. (And you'r +e welcome again.) <merlyn> the way to teach "baby perl" is to teach a model that actuall +y has a few holes. that's life. <merlyn> thanks saugo <theorbtwo> Oh, I'm not saying that your books are bad. They're rathe +r good. I just think that they could be better. <theorbtwo> There are very few things I read and say "that couldn't ha +ve been better". <merlyn> I'd challenge you to teach the same level of material in the +same number of pages. seriously. I've spent a lifetime learnign +how to teach this stuff. <Arguile> Hehe. &lt;code&gt;curse( $foo ); # P5 compatible object mode +l (in P6)&lt;/code&gt; <merlyn> so I'll kindly suggest that you refrain from such crap unless you're willing to put yoru money where your mouth is. <theorbtwo> LOL, [Arguile]. <theorbtwo> Hm. Never considered technical writing and teaching as a carreer. And I wasn't calling your work crap by any means +. <merlyn> And I dont' see O'Reilly clamoring to get you to write their +next book. <merlyn> No, I'm calling your claim crap. I think you have no clue he +re. <merlyn> And I'll show you my reviews and royalty checks to prove it. <merlyn> I have credentials. Critical Acclaim. Street Cred. You are + just a guy who seems to always be over your head here on perlmonks +. You have no weight here. <theorbtwo> [merlyn], I have no doubt that your books are popular, tha +t many people like them, and that you're a very good teacher +. <merlyn> so move along, please. your comments are baseless. * sauoq thinks he could do a good job of writing a book. How do you go about doing it and making a living at the same time? * castaway giggles <merlyn> I will certainly listen to any valid criticism. Please forwa +rd that to merlyn@stonehenge.com - I'm curious. <theorbtwo> In fact, I consider the book of yours that I own in hardco +py to be probably the best-written non-fiction book I own. <merlyn> book writing is NEVER about making a living <sauoq> That's what I'm missing... how do I approach a publisher and g +et them to pay my rent and bills for the time it takes me to writ +e a book. I'd happily quit my job and do that... <merlyn> it's only about credentials or collateral. Book writing is n +ever a living <merlyn> [sauog] - if you figure that out, lemme know. :) <theorbtwo> [sauoq], first you give them a finished book. Then, if it +'s really really good, you might have a prayer, possibly, of +that happening the next time. * castaway thinks several fiction authors would argue about that.. <merlyn> right.. SF can be a living. But not techwriting. too small +an audience. <theorbtwo> [castaway], every time I've ever heard a writer write abou +t writing, they've said that it's a horrible way to make a living. <merlyn> I'm an <u>incredibly successful</u> techwriter.... and yet th +e best month I've had in royalties paid about $10K. * sauoq sighs. <merlyn> that may seem huge, but there's been far too many $1K months +as well. <castaway> hmm.. havent looked hard enough then.. I see several that e +njoy it.. (Terry Pratchett for example..) <merlyn> so, back to the issue. [theorbtwo] - if you have legitimate complaints, please email me. Lemme brew on it. But I bet yo +u won't have anything that would have changed the way I did Lla +ma or Alpaca. <theorbtwo> BTW, [merlyn], ever consider putting out a book of collect +ed articles? (Or do you not have rights to do such a thing?) <merlyn> and in fact, I'd bet you are telling me to change things in a + way that I know for sure didn't work in the past. <merlyn> [theorbtwo] - that's in progress. expect such in a year or s +o. <theorbtwo> Cool. I'll quite likely buy such a beast. <castaway> [sauoq] try this: [http://www.megafortress.com/essay2.htm|breaking in is hard + to do] <merlyn> that's what I and the publisher are hopping <merlyn> (hoping) * kodo likes effective perl programming a lot... <merlyn> we're taking my 166 columns, throwing out the redundant ones, organizing them into topics, then creating a few paragraphs t +o "update" anything that needs such. <merlyn> EPP for Stonehenge is being replaced by Alpaca <sauoq> fwiw, I think you did the right thing in drawing a distinction between references and scalars. I don't think I agree that doi +ng so is more pedantic... but less so. But, I'll reiterate, I think +less pedantic is probably good for a learning book. <merlyn> all I can say is whatever I'm doing in alpaca is nearly essen +tial for learning, even if it breaks models needed later. <merlyn> that's the strategy I'm always willing to take in a tutorial +book * theorbtwo shrugs.</i> [merlyn] is right; he is vastly more qualifie +d then I am to be making assertations like this. <merlyn> I say it on page one of my course materials "we lie from time + to time" <theorbtwo> There's been two kinds of debates/arguments I've had with +you, and this one is the "it's just style" kind. <merlyn> it's because I have to give scaffolding. sometimes, the scaffolding is not the final materials. that's life. <merlyn> yeah, an art call, based on experience. <theorbtwo> (I actualy had substance the other day, on for/foreach terminology, was actualy grounded in a good point, which I should write coherently at some point. (That being that terminology should be easy to use correctly.)) <merlyn> don't knock my art until you have faced thousands of students +. <merlyn> until then, you haven't "earned your licks" enough for me to +pay attention. :) <Alexander> /me.oO(if i were not so overtired, i might get up and danc +e having finshed the deadline coding for the site.) <sauoq> Right. And understandable. <merlyn> in an ideal world, perhaps the teaching would be different. +I live in my world, not that ideal world. <theorbtwo> The scary part is, you meant thousands of students in a la +rge ampitheter, didn't you? <merlyn> I mean everythign from 2 people to 200 people, yes. <theorbtwo> I don't teach large groups, ever. In fact, I don't teach professionaly in any matter. <merlyn> bing! so your comments about "how to teach" are all crap. O +K. :) * sauoq considers it for a moment... online, I've had thousands of students... only dozens in real life... but I've taught a lot +on IRC... nothing structured of course... hrm... maybe I should g +o into teaching. Got an opening on your team [merlyn]? <merlyn> allow me to introduce myself as "Randal the professional teac +her, writer, and tutorial author" then. <Alexander> g'nite everyone (merlyn and orb, dont hurt each other... m +uch) ;-P <theorbtwo> OTOH, I don't ever recall somebody complaignign about my teaching style... including teachers I constantly correcte +d to the point a good argument can be made that I was teaching. <theorbtwo> [alexander], goodnight. <merlyn> [saouq] - I hire only people who are famous. (1) get famous. + (2) I'll notice you. * theorbtwo wonders momentarly if [merlyn] has ever hired somebody oth +er then [merlyn]. <castaway> night alexander <merlyn> [http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=8217/ur0306h/] <theorbtwo> I respect Randal the professional teacher, writer, and tut +orial author. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother trying to disagree + with him. <merlyn> I've had a half dozen instructors working for me, yes. <theorbtwo> wow. <theorbtwo> I always got the impression you were a one-man show. <merlyn> Joseph Hall, Tom Phoenix, Chip Salzenberg, <tt>brian d foy</t +t>, Tad Maclellan <merlyn> you certainly don't visit my website ever then. <merlyn> I also had a few others who tried but washed out during the prelims <sauoq> Tad McClellan is famous? <theorbtwo> I've been there a few times, actualy, but normaly just to +read your articles, which are quite fun, even when I've been ov +er the same ground myself. <Corion> [merlyn]: Does brian d foy insist on monospace for his name? <merlyn> he was answering nearly every other question in comp.lang.perl.misc when I approached him <sauoq> But whatever... if I get famous [merlyn] it'll be too late. Yo +u will have missed your chance. Poof. Gone. <merlyn> [http://www.panix.com/~comdog/style.html] <Corion> .oO(Getting famous in the Perl community is no problem - gett +ing famous and still being liked in the Perl community is harder +:-)) <merlyn> famous != marketable. I turn famous people into marketing it +ems. <merlyn> if you don't know the difference, you'll never make money. :) * theorbtwo wonders if it'd be <tt>d foy</tt>, <tt>brian</tt>. <merlyn> Stonehenge is a marketing machine. we work hard to brand the brand, and have people call us first. <sauoq> That's not what I need... I need the avenue to get famous. Tim +ing and all, ya know? I missed the perl boat by a couple years.... + that and I took employment in the private sector where I needed to +be careful about my open source involvement at times.-sigh- <merlyn> feel free to try to do the marketing on your own. you'll com +e up short. I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars marketing + the Stonehenge brand. <merlyn> ask Allison Randal about how long it takes to be famous. <theorbtwo> And you do a good job, [merlyn]. If I needed a perl class taught, I'd email you first... and then have no idea where + else to look. <merlyn> I gave her the same challenge I just gave you. WIthin six mo +nths, she pushed herself into the Perl6 committee. And now has a b +ook already available at OSCON. <merlyn> she had asked to work with me. I told her what I just told y +ou. <merlyn> she is clearly famous now. I'd hire her in a second. <merlyn> so don't tell me that you can't be famous within a year or so +. It's been done! <castaway> (who's Allison Randal ?) <merlyn> it's about finding a need within the Perl community, and fill +ing it excellently. then your name gets out there. and that make +s you marketable for Stonehenge. <sauoq> Wait... "You'll come up short?" Heh. That's cute. Well... I su +re am lucky that my future doesn't rely on <em>your</em> faith, aren +'t I? <merlyn> [castaway] - you've not been following perl6 at all, apparent +ly. :) <castaway> Nope, cant say I have * kodo also got no clue about perl6 yet... * theorbtwo wonders momentarly if [tye] or [vroom] is really famous in + the community-at-large, or just here. <merlyn> [vroom] gets street cred for perlmonks, but [tye] hasn't outt +ed himself enough to do so. <theorbtwo> perl6 is fun stuff... half of the time I read somthing of [thedamian]'s, I just go "huh?"... but the "whoh"s are int +ense. <sauoq> Thanks for the link [castaway]. <castaway> but then, I'd been using perl for 2 years, and hadnt heard +of you til I came here, either * theorbtwo nods. <merlyn> in terms of perl6 design, it's Larry, Damian, and Allison. T +hey are The Holy Three. <merlyn> and that's due in part to my urging her to be a famous person +. * djantzen has set his sights on infamy instead. * merlyn sets his sights on blasphemy <castaway> welcome, [sauoq] (some of his others are also not bad.. and + the books anyway ,) <theorbtwo> Odd, it's always looked from here like Allison is one of t +he more minor people -- a lot of Larry, Damian, and Dan (thou +gh he has a slightly different sphere). I suspect Allison just +gets less credit and/or puts out less public emails. <theorbtwo> [castaway], but this site was your first exposure to The Community, wasn't it? <sauoq> Well... there it goes.... you had a chance there. Momentarily. + Now, if I ever talk to you about working for you again... it'll be +you asking me and me saying "no thanks." Then I'll wink and whispe +r, "by the way, I'm bones." <merlyn> never heard of bones. <merlyn> if you had street cred, I'd know you. * castaway nods [theorbtwo] <theorbtwo> [sauoq], can I suggest that picking one name might be a go +od thing in terms of famousness? <theorbtwo> OTOH, if I winked at [merlyn], and whispered "by the way, +I'm theorbtwo", I'd probably get slugged... ;) <sauoq> rollin' bones, jay bones.... talk about street cred... you hav +e <em>no idea.</em> :-) * djantzen can hear [sauoq]'s sigh all the way over here. <merlyn> listen, if you wanna be a fuckhead, and be pseudonymous when +you don't need to be, go ahead. <theorbtwo> (Yes, I have read your name space, [sauoq], I do know that [sauoq] is a 180deg rotation of bones -- but people who kn +ow who sauoq is won't realize they know bones, and vice-versa +.) <sauoq> [theorbtwo] Nah... ubergeeks always have at least 3 names... they're kinda like cats. Ever read T.S.? <theorbtwo> Works well enough for [chromatic]. <merlyn> you earn no respect with me hiding behind a pretend name. I +am very clearly who I am, and it works for me. <sauoq> Now I'm a fuckhead? <merlyn> and [chromatic] is clearly chromatic everywhere. not his rea +l name anywhere. <theorbtwo> [sauoq], can't say I have. (And James Mastros, theorb, an +d theorbtwo, pleased to meet you, [sauoq], bones, and whateveryourrealnamehappenstobe.) * kodo lols <castaway> (3 names? 1 name + 1 nick is enough for me..) <theorbtwo> Uh... exactly the reason for my advice [merlyn]. You're clearly Randal Schwartz, wherever you go, even here, where + it says [merlyn]. Similarly, chromatic is always chromatic, +even more so. <merlyn> so [sauoq] - I have no respect for you, because you are prete +nding to be someone whom you arent'. <merlyn> even if you are someone famous, you're being a fuckhead. * sauoq was being obtuse, [castaway]... but it's a good rule of thumb +just the same. <theorbtwo> Makes little difference if the name you use was given to y +ou by your parents. Indeed, people will remember <tt>chromatic< +tt> or <tt>brian d foy</tt> on the cover of a book. <merlyn> I don't appreciate people who lie to me. <theorbtwo> </tt></tt> D'oh! Easy to miss a slash. <merlyn> </tt> <sauoq> Well, I often think the same of you. You're entitled, of cours +e. <theorbtwo> Interesting, [merlyn] -- exactly my earlier point -- I don +'t like tutorials that lie to me. <Corion> ... &lt;code&gt;code be gone&lt;/code&gt; * sauoq never lied once. <merlyn> All tutorials lie. Get over it. <sauoq> To you that is... I'm not a saint. <merlyn> if they didn't lie, they'd be reference books. :) * kodo lols a bit more <theorbtwo> I am over it, [merlyn]. <sauoq> I do think its funny that you just have no idea whether I'm fa +mous or not... I can see the gears churning... "well, he's not a newbie... do I know this guy? Have I met him?" <merlyn> well, if you're sherm pendley, you certainly pick a weird way + to presence yourself in the world. <merlyn> and if that's also an alias, I'm even more disgusted with you +. :) <sauoq> You just need to get over yourself. Street cred... pshaw. "fam +ous" pbbbt. <theorbtwo> [merlyn], you're both famous and rather respected. If I h +ad to choose one, I'd rather be respected. <merlyn> you've certainly earned a few points in the "ASSHOLE" categor +y. <sauoq> What kind of name is "sherm pendley"? * theorbtwo sighs, and would also rather have a full nights sleep, but + has to get up in a maximum of 4.5 hours... goodnight, all. <merlyn> that's "camelbones" - since you also call yourself "bones", I suspect a link. <sauoq> Cool. I thought we playing HORSE... but I guess I did sink a c +ouple three pointers. <merlyn> but you know, I just plain don't care. I'm not into puzzles. + If you'd rather be hidden behind a puzzle, you're a fucking nobo +dy. go away. * castaway gives [theorbtwo] a birthday kiss and sends him to bed.. * merlyn heads off to bed <theorbtwo> Goodnight, [merlyn]. <sauoq> Never heard of "camelbones". I used to smoke camels... years a +go. The filtered ones... the unfiltered made even me hack... <castaway> night merlyn.. * djantzen wonders how one's street cred is affected by successfully goading someone of [merlyn]'s stature into flinging slurs.. +. <theorbtwo> camels, or kamels, [sauoq]? <kodo> everyone's a nobody finally. doesn't mean anything to be famous + or not. * sauoq smiles. <sauoq> camels. * castaway grins to herself. * theorbtwo suspects [merlyn] would be a little more respected and a l +ittle less famous if he were to swear less when confronted with critisisim...and wonders which he'd prefer. <sauoq> And I kept it in bounds the whole time too, [djantzen]... wonderous, huh? <robobunny> i certainly hope watching this discussion was not someone' +s first exposure to perlmonks <theorbtwo> [robobunny], my first exposure to PM was the stink around [merlyn]'s name being taken off of Camel3. * Corion has this surefire plan to get famous and disrespected in the +core Perl community, while at the same time earning some money ... + But he is too chicken ... <sauoq> The way I hear it, he didn't even contribute that much to the +2nd ed. <kodo> I really have lots of respect from merlyn when it comes to codi +ng and his books. But tbh until I saw him talking here and on some nodes I thought he'd be a much more gentle person...with more w +isdom not caring about beeing "famous" or not... <robobunny> in a way, talking smack about your perl street cred is pre +tty hilarious if you think about it <true> anybody know how to grant a user an email address while not all +owing ftp on linux? * djantzen practices his not famous signature. <merlyn> [sauoq] - the only people who say that are the people who wer +en't there. <theorbtwo> Anyway, goodnight, really. <merlyn> and now I suspect you may actually be Tom Christiansen. How interesting. <merlyn> that would nearly explain your previous behavior here. <castaway> true, theres an /etc/ftpusers for those allowed to do ftp.. <kodo> true: don't understand your question...why shouldn't that work? * sauoq would rather be a plain old guy... working a plain old job... raising his beautiful little daughter... than a famous geek wi +th street cred and huge head. <robobunny> ftp servers typically don't allow access if your shell is +not listed in /etc/shells <merlyn> [kodo] - I'm responsible for everythign I say, but I'd apprec +iate concrete feedback instead of abstract handwaving, thank you. <sauoq> I thought you'd still be listening. <robobunny> /etc/ftpusers is actually people who are not allow to use +ftp <merlyn> Whoa. So it's really Gnat. How cool. <kodo> merlyn: sure, that's fine. I respect your point of views just t +hink you should be a bit more open and don't take things that seriou +s. :-) <merlyn> Again, putting on a clown face and walking in to here doesn't impress me. <castaway> oops.. well, right thought .. thanks robobunny <merlyn> There are very few things that I take seriously. Perhaps you don't agree, but allow me that indulgeence. * sauoq wonders how many other people he will guess that I am... <merlyn> spreading crap amongst the community like bad security advice + or bad code, I take seriouslyl. <theorbtwo> [merlyn], I just /msg'd a reminder to myself to write a meditation on terminology, I welcome your thoughts on it w +hen I finish it (which, at the rate I'm going on my mental todo +will be a while.) <true> so i add users to this file. and restart?? <sauoq> You were right the first time, dude... I'm "a nobody"... what +are you worried about? What are all these shadows jumping up and attacking you? * merlyn would like to wring [sauoq]'s neck, and now realizes this is exactly the behavior that [sauoq] is trying to elicit. How d +roll. <robobunny> you shouldn't have to restart the ftp daemon <merlyn> OK, nothing more from me regarding the troll. /me moves on <sauoq> I'm not trying to elicit any behavior, [merlyn]. <sauoq> But, so nice of you to start spelling the name right. <theorbtwo> OK, really, really, really time for bed. <sauoq> And, calling me a troll here is sort of joke. I think there's enough evidence that I come to help out. <kodo> now fucking leave orb or I'll tell castaway to bring you to bed + :-) <true> thanks monks, works great. my domain control panel thanks you. * castaway would love to .. <theorbtwo> Yes, [kodo|sir]! Not that she hasn't been trying, sir! * castaway .oO( gone .. ) <djantzen> [sauoq] is not and never has been a troll [merlyn].
Thanks, djantzen. :-)
... * Corion is sufficiently convinved that [sauoq] is not gnat... ... * virtualsue never understood why merlyn thought sauoq was gnat to beg +in with * castaway doesnt understand merlyn, period. <kodo> as i said I respect him but also don't understand why he is so "serious" in a weird way sometimes * kodo goes out for a walk to relax a bit <sauoq> [Corion] Sshh... don't tell anyone else I'm not gnat... I woul +dn't want that to get around. ;-) * sauoq chuckles.

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