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Re^10: Near-free function currying in Perl

by Jenda (Abbot)
on Dec 12, 2004 at 23:48 UTC ( [id://414286]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^9: Near-free function currying in Perl
in thread Near-free function currying in Perl

90% of all Perl programmers will never know that you can take a reference to a subroutine.

The question is whether these people deserve to be called "Perl programmers".

Jenda
If you're not a programmer, you shouldn't be using Perl. Programming languages are tools for programmers. I apologize if people see that as an elitist statement, but it's true. The mere act of picking up a toolbox doesn't make me an auto mechanic. Would you let me work on your car just because I had a set of tools? I have a pair of scissors at home; you should let me cut your hair.
  -- Greg Bacon

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re^11: Near-free function currying in Perl
by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Dec 13, 2004 at 06:08 UTC
    If you're not a programmer, you shouldn't be using Perl. Programming languages are tools for programmers. I apologize if people see that as an elitist statement, but it's true. The mere act of picking up a toolbox doesn't make me an auto mechanic. Would you let me work on your car just because I had a set of tools? I have a pair of scissors at home; you should let me cut your hair.

    Updated: clarified condition

    Jenda++ -- with a caveat.

    I wouldn't let you cut my hair, or service my car, just because you had a pair of scissors, or a set of tools.

    However, if you wanted to change the oil filter, air filter, wiper blades, or check the tyre pressures on your car and wanted me to give you a few clues as to how you should start, or check what you did afterwards--I'd probably help you with that.

    And if having done a few of the simpler things a few times, you got the taste and confidence to try and tackle something a little more ambicious, I'd probably encourage you.

    And if, over time, it became obvious that you had some sort of flair for what you were doing: you didn't need to ask the same questions over and over; you learnt from your mistakes; displayed the habits of keeping your tools clean and in the right place; laid out the bits you took off in order, so you knew which way to put them back; took the time to label wires and stuff as you went; took responsibility for any mistakes you made--even if based on my advice; then I'd be more than happy to continue to provide what advice I could.

    And, if you eventually got so bitten by the idea that you decided to build your own kit car and asked me to check your work as you went. I'd probably be more that happy to do that too.

    But if you come to me with your nice new toolkit in your hand, and your big pile of kit car bits in the garage and ask me "Where do I start?", I'm probably going to suggest, "I think Joe over the road may know something about wheels and bolts and nuts and stuff."


    Examine what is said, not who speaks.        The end of an era!
    "But you should never overestimate the ingenuity of the sceptics to come up with a counter-argument." -Myles Allen
    "Think for yourself!" - Abigail        "Time is a poor substitute for thought"--theorbtwo         "Efficiency is intelligent laziness." -David Dunham
    "Memory, processor, disk in that order on the hardware side. Algorithm, algorithm, algorithm on the code side." - tachyon
Re^11: Near-free function currying in Perl
by tilly (Archbishop) on Dec 13, 2004 at 17:55 UTC
    As BrowserUK said at length, it is obvious that these people do not deserve to be called Perl programmers, but I strongly disagree with your Greg Bacon quote.

    There is a difference between a programmer and someone who sometimes writes programs. However Perl was designed to allow you to get stuff done while only talking baby talk. There are plenty of sysadmins, DBAs, and general users who find Perl helpful even though they are not programmers, and I don't agree with the kind of elitism which would deny them such a useful tool.

    While I can't presume to talk for Larry Wall, the fact that he designed Perl to be productively used while only talking baby talk, and then encouraged this in Programming Perl is strongly suggestive about what he thinks.

Re^11: Near-free function currying in Perl
by dragonchild (Archbishop) on Dec 13, 2004 at 15:00 UTC
    The question is whether these people deserve to be called "Perl programmers".

    No. The question is whether or not they will be paid to be a Perl programmer. If they are, they will fsck up your code. It's a pragmatic matter.

    Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs nothing.
    Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid.
    Expressing a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
    Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is not the same as explaining you know better.

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