|We don't bite newbies here... much|
Re^4: Perl Babysteps 1: Your First Simple Scriptby DaWolf (Curate)
|on Dec 30, 2004 at 16:53 UTC||Need Help??|
You leave me no choice. FLAME ON.Not my intention. Sorry if I offended you, it wasn't the intention of my reply.
Yes, a tutorial should begin at the beginning. But that doesn't mean it has to be easy or targeted at little children. Of course, if this is indeed meant for young children, then I take back what I said and can only say it's a good tutorial.Pointless. There are levels of tutorials. There are beginner-type tutorials, intermediate and so on...
You sound like we should make the process of learning perl very hard, so it will attract only inteligent people. I can't see any use to this. Knowledge and experience are things to be shared with people who doesn't have them.
One thing that can kill a language to a programmer is the learning curve. I know because I've quitted to learn Java or C because of this, and because I felt that learning Perl and PHP would be easier.
And it did, so what? Are Perl and PHP idiotic languages compared to C and Java? Not IMHO.
If you prevent people to learn the language by making the process hard you fail to bring newcomers to it. And even if you bring idiots they might become wise programmers later. But you have to give'em a chance for this to happen.
If we start having tutorials like this, we get another breed of programmers here: the non-programmers who think it's elite or cool to write a script that displays their own name in an infinite loop.You can't state that. You are trying to say that IT WILL happen in this or that way. And even if it does, brig them on! Let's share knowledge with them, let's make them wise! Let's explain to them why they should do this or that.
As posted on a bunch of other nodes here, there's no point to be rude just because you have more knowledge than other people.
What is really idiotic is stating "You should do THIS because it's the right way to do it. And boy, I see that A LOT in here.
If you don't have the patience to answer the "idiots" just don't do it. But also don't start call them idiots with a superior look in your face, because that hurts, and hurts a lot.
BTW, the first piece of code I wrote was a BASIC thing that does:
So...? Ok, it's an idiot piece of code. Stupid really, but it was my name running on my MSX screen (a B&W TV) that made my interest for code to arise.
Today I'm far better than that (thanks PM and a bunch of other communitys like PHP Builder, Code Freaks, and so on), but if someone had told me "Oh you idiot. You do this you'll never be a good programmer" I'd be selling hot dogs, or working as a bank teller or any other thing.
It's the community and the way documentation is written that do that. The Perl community is often seen as an elitist community from the outside, but I prefer that to something that wastes human resources the way the PHP community does.You are generalizing a whole community of programmers because of some. I don't like to be elitistic. It's a dull, dumb, stupid thing that doesn't bring nothing good to anyone.
Besides, yes, PHP has a lot of flaws in it's documentation, but at least it tries to put things in a nice, clear way, wich was the same thing the OP did for Perl on this node. Why spanking them for that? That's not a good reason to do it.
Mediocre performance.Well, not IMO. I've made a PHP script that parses text and checks against more than two million words in a database and then format them with bold and colors. It runs in less than one second. That's a good performance, IMO.
And it makes certain jobs easy, yes. Jobs like calculating an easterdate.So what? Why should a easterdate calculation function be mocked?
It's a nice templating language, though, except it is useful only for dynamic content.Well, I live for dynamic sites, so it suits me perfectly. Am I an idiot because of this?
Perl is also excellent for building dynamic sites, so...? Why "building dynamic sites" is seen as a poor implementation of code? Have you ever imagined the web without dynamic content?
I stress that PHP isn't good for *programming*.What a nasty thing to say. I still didn't found any reasonable arguments to make such a serious statement.
Does not have to be a hard time, or even hard. There should be something to filter out the stupidest of beginners.Like what? A degree? A certification? A letter from the guy's parents? There isn't any good filter you can apply. If you do this you will be excluding people and thus making the community smaller.
Even newbies and rookies often contribute with good questions and even good answers. That happen because they are free from some vices that experienced people got from programming and so they can think out of the box and present us things we never thought about it. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Put only people with a specific background here and you'll have a constant line of thought that isn't always healthy.
Allow differences, allow newbieness, allow idiots. Put a smile on your face when you see a newbie question. Try to remember the time when you were the newbie and you did your best to improve. The time when you thought for hours before posting a question and still were affraid of being critiscized for your newbieness.
I think you mean less ignorant, not less idiotic.That was a little joke. Jesus, man, have some humour...
FLAME OFF.For THAT I thank you.