I've been really happy with the much reduced problem of really bad first posts now that vroom has added many nice features in this area.
The one place where I'd still like to see a change is preventing extremely low level monks from posting new questions to Categorized Questions and Answers. Asking a properly categorized question requires a bit of skill in selecting a truely "generic" question and in order to get the problem properly stated in the title so that no description is needed.
Very new monks often get confused and post to Q&A when they really should be posting to Seekers of Perl Wisdom. I'd like to see monks below level 3 (or maybe just below level 2) restricted from posting new Q&A questions, getting directed to Seekers of Perl Wisdom instead.
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tye
(but my friends call me "Tye")
Re: No Q&A from new users
by little (Curate) on Nov 22, 2000 at 04:38 UTC
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I'm asking myself "Why we can post do Q&A directly?" in more general.
Wouldn't it be of more help to keep the site structure clear to move those SOPW nodes that might be of general interest or describe "common traps" along with the "best answers" to it to the Q&A section, to which I still look at as it would be a FAQ area.
Have a nice day
All decision is left to your taste | [reply] |
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SOPW is, from my understanding, for reasonably involved questions about how to approach a particular problem. Q&A seems to have been conceived of as an area for quick *mechanics of Perl*, as in "how do I sort hash keys according to their associated values ?"
Both kinds of questions (and answers) occur in the Perl Cookbook (plug, plug, get it if you don't have it), and granted
the line between them isn't always that clear; but I do think it's a useful line to draw.
Philosophy can be made out of anything. Or less -- Jerry A. Fodor
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A brand spanking new user, seeing two links, one labeled "Seekers of Perl Wisdom" and another labeled "Questions and Answers" is going to typically pick the latter if they have a question or problem they need resolved. There's not much we can do about that that doesn't involve relabeling.
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Re: No Q&A from new users
by Albannach (Monsignor) on Nov 22, 2000 at 07:00 UTC
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I think little has it right. My first impression of Q&A
was as an FAQ-in-progress sort of thing. It would make more sense to me
that only higher level members be able to "promote" questions
to that area from the general SoPW, with either all or just some selected
answers that had accumulated there. | [reply] |
Re: No Q&A from new users
by life_monger (Hermit) on Nov 22, 2000 at 20:40 UTC
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I really agree with tye and little. As a “new user”, I would really like to see the Categorized Questions and Answers section kept as clean and focused as possible. I primarily use it to find quick answers to my quick questions and as an option to reaching all the way across the desk and grabbing a book. But, as Fastolfe pointed out, Q&A was the first place I wanted to post when I had a question. SoPW just seems mystical and could be intimidating to a young monk with a quick question.
Thanks for your contributions. I've really learned a lot since I've started hanging out here. | [reply] |
Re: No Q&A from new users
by lemming (Priest) on Nov 22, 2000 at 20:38 UTC
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At the very least, disallow Anonymous Monks from posting in that area.
Another thought not worth extra node since it's more a voting idea
Bad karma: If you vote -- more than ++ you have a possibility of losing experience. | [reply] |
Re: No Q&A from new users
by turnstep (Parson) on Jan 26, 2001 at 17:59 UTC
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This is now an old thread, but I thought I would point
out that this problem has now been (mostly) resolved: the
Q&A Editors can now move a question
from the Q&A section to the
Seekers of Perl Wisdom section. Which is a good thing,
because it happens often. Thanks again vroom! :)
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Re: No Q&A from new users
by curtisb (Monk) on Nov 23, 2000 at 04:13 UTC
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Tye may be on to something. However, I am a recently new monk and I know that I haven't posted some of the brightest questions and comments myself. What I'm basicly saying is this, "How can the new monks learn if they don't have access to certin links, Q&A, within the Monistary?" In everything we do, there will always be a learining curve, the monks should be patient with the new monks.
The older monks should help the newer monks by guiding them to the right areas when they first start asking questions, thanks Fastolfe. Now, the newer monks have to take responablilty here also, they have to be willing to ask questions. How about doing something like linking older monks up with newer monks? Like a mentorship or something. Then if the new monks have questions then they can email their mentor and ask before posting to the Monistary pages. This would allow the newer monks to look around and see what is available to use and a chance to meet, by email, some very knowledgable people in perl.
If a forum of this type is cosidered, then anyone under level 5 (monk) should be assigned a mentor. A level 5 monk should have enough knowledge to make intelligance decisions before posting.
Well that is about all I have to say about this issue.....agree or disagree?
curtisb -- "Try as you might, but we have to work together!" | [reply] |
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How can the new monks learn if they don't have access to certin links, Q&A, within the Monistary?
No one is proposing that new monks not be allowed to access the Q&A section. I am only suggesting that new monks not be allowed to post new questions to that section. I'm not even suggesting that new monks be banned from posting answers -- indeed, I want even new (and anonymous) monks to be able to post answers in Q&A. [Did you read the title and not any of the postings?]
This is not meant as a punishment and is not suggested out of frustration or impatience with new monks. It is hoped that the greatest positive impact will be for new monks, not us old codgers.
So you can learn by reading and even answering questions in that section. And you can learn by posting questions into Seekers of Perl Wisdom (and lots of other ways).
One way I don't want you to learn is by posting "uncategorizable" questions to Categorized Questions and Answers, getting "answers" that say "Please post this to SoPW", not seeing the answers because no second monk notices to vote the answer up (I'm guessing that this is how Q&A works these days), posting again, getting voted down, losing XP before you even know what it is, having your first 3 nodes deleted, etc.
As others have said, new monks will be drawn to Q&A because of the nice name. I think this is great. That might lead them to an answer to their question without even having to ask (which is the fastest way to get an answer if you can swing it). If you come here seeking help, you aren't likely to "just hang out" for a week seeing how the site works and are quite likely to not read, to overlook, misunderstand, or misinterpret parts of the site documentation.
And most of this doesn't bother me much most of the time. New posters not figuring out how to use <code> tags was a real pain. It hurt the new posters more than anyone else. The "forced preview" has greatly reduced that problem to the benefit of all. I think the natural draw of Q&A is a similar, though less serious, type of problem.
To address some of the other responses so far...
I don't want the only way to create Q&A questions to be to have Q&A Editors move SoPW questions over. I see some practical problems with moving from SoPW to Q&A but those can probably be addressed. I think that even fairly new monks have done good jobs coming up with good categorized questions and think that should continue. I think we need an ongoing "recruit new Q&A Editors" process to make sure that group keeps up.
Back to your comments...
I completely agree that everyone should be patient with everyone. I agree that more experienced monks should mentor new monks. I don't see how pairing up monks would work in a practical sense (Do you wait around for your assigned mentor to show up? Is there some enforcement to get new monks to actually notice that they have a mentor and to seek guidence from them before they "make a mistake"?). I think new monks often get good mentoring via the chatterbox, and I think we should encourage that. If you've already posted a question to the wrong area, then I consider it a bit late for guiding you to the right section, considering the probably resulting mayhem.
But I do think we could do better with dealing with the newest members. I have some vague idea of a "new user area" where things are "kindler and gentler". That is, the chatterbox is local to that area so no smart remarks from people not volunteering to be new-user oriented. The posts can't be voted on and perhaps auto-expire. An official "there are no dump questions" policy, even "so, should I read the FAQ?".
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tye
(but my friends call me "Tye")
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Tye,
Very well stated! Yes, I read your posting before posting what I said. However you have made it clearer in what you were talking about. Yes, the chatter box is a great place for mentorship, but it is not effecent.
Dealing with Q&A, thought you wanted to cut the access to it to the new monks, that I don't agree with. But, I do agree with limiting where they can post at.
Then the site should come up with a FAQ page. This page should answer the basic questions any new monk has.
So, in closing Tye, I agree with your point-of-view, now.
curtisb - "seeing the light"
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