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When I count, I think of numbers as...

by ambrus (Abbot)
on May 28, 2005 at 02:05 UTC ( #461272=poll: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

vote on When I count, I think of numbers as...

spoken words
[bar] 93/24%
other sound
[bar] 1/0%
positions
[bar] 70/18%
shapes
[bar] 29/8%
colours
[bar] 5/1%
other images
[bar] 17/4%
feelings
[bar] 12/3%
the basic building blocks of thought
[bar] 39/10%
scalars
[bar] 72/19%
beans
[bar] 9/2%
fingers and toes
[bar] 19/5%
someone else's fingers and toes
[bar] 17/4%
383 total votes
Comment on When I count, I think of numbers as...
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by Nkuvu (Priest) on May 28, 2005 at 02:23 UTC
    Light and dark.

    Zero through ten are fairly bright. Eleven through twenty are a bit dimmer, but the numbers brighten up again until thirty. Then it's a gradual dimming until about one hundred, after which it's all a murky blanket.

    Other numbers tend to get categorized by their primary components. So eleven thousand, for example, is mostly an "eleven" number. So it's brighter than 123.

    And if you didn't think I was insane before this, then kindly disregard this note. But if you know the truth, then you're welcome to read and remember.

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by Popcorn Dave (Abbot) on May 28, 2005 at 03:03 UTC
    I chose positions, but I would have chosen fingers and toes if I went barefoot more often...

    Useless trivia: In the 2004 Las Vegas phone book there are approximately 28 pages of ads for massage, but almost 200 for lawyers.
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by blokhead (Monsignor) on May 28, 2005 at 04:03 UTC
    Colors, since I have synesthesia. For me, letters and numbers (or more accurately, their digits) are in color, but numbers are slightly more vivid.
    0 = black 1 = white 2 = brown 3 = yellow 4 = blue 5 = orange 6 = green 7 = yellow 8 = dark gray 9 = dark red

    blokhead

      ... which might be really confusing to someone who learned elementary arithmetic using Cuisenaire Rods. (http://teachertech.rice.edu/Participants/silha/Lessons/cuisen2.html)
      zero ;; (transparent) one ;; whi - white two ;; red - red three ;; lgr - light green four ;; pur - purple five ;; yel - yellow six ;; dgr - dark green seven ;; bla - black eight ;; bro - brown nine ;; blu - blue ten ;; ora - orange
      =oQDlNWYsBHI5JXZ2VGIulGIlJXYgQkUPxEIlhGdgY2bgMXZ5VGIlhGV

        No, no, no. This being a tech-geek forum, you should all know the *real* color/number correspondance:

        0black
        1blue
        2green
        3cyan
        4red
        5magenta
        6brown/orange (dark yellow)
        7light grey
        8dark grey
        9bright blue
        10bright green
        11bright cyan
        12bright red
        13bright magenta
        14bright yellow
        15white

        "In adjectives, with the addition of inflectional endings, a changeable long vowel (Qamets or Tsere) in an open, propretonic syllable will reduce to Vocal Shewa. This type of change occurs when the open, pretonic syllable of the masculine singular adjective becomes propretonic with the addition of inflectional endings."  — Pratico & Van Pelt, BBHG, p68

        Good grief, and I thought *I* was the only one who learned counting with those. They go back to Kindergarten, 1963-64 at Elmwood Elementary in Rosemere, QC. I remember the ones (white) and twos (red), but that's about it.

        I also remember making a plasticene snake several tables long with a bunch of laughing classmates, but .. that's not important right now.

        Alex / talexb / Toronto

        "Groklaw is the open-source mentality applied to legal research" ~ Linus Torvalds

        Strangely, I remember that we had similar rods in elementary school, but I think the color scheme was different. I'm sure 1 was white, but one of the shorter ones (2 or maybe 3) was light blue. Also, there were a few longer rods, I think 12 and 20 long ones.

      me runs of to wiki to read up on synethesia...

      In electronics there is the color code for indicating the value of resistors and the like (When I was younger I spent a fair amount of time putting together Heathkit's and such).

        0 = black
        1 = brown
        2 = red
        3 = orange
        4 = yellow
        5 = green
        6 = blue
        7 = purple
        8 = grey
        9 = white
      

      While I don't think of numbers as colors, sometimes I (still) think of colors as numbers...

        As in
        0blackbad
        1brownboys
        2redrape err... ehem... race
        3orangeour
        4yellowyoung
        5greengirls
        6bluebehind
        7violetvictorian
        8greygarden
        9whitewalls

        Sorry... couldn't resist. Used that jingle from the time I was 8 to remember the color code for resistors. I am a long time electronics buff.

        The jingle became more "R" rated when I went to BEE school in the US Navy.. :-)

      Regarding synesthesia...

      Wow. I had no idea people did that.

      Of course, I had no idea people could even see pictures in their head until I was 20 or so. My brain is all about sounds and physical positions. I remember phone numbers by saying them in my head repeatedly until the sequence of sounds is familiar, or sometimes by dialing the number three or four times until "my hand remembers".

      Of course, most people expect other people to have visual recall (at a minimum) and visual imagination (hopefully). Since I have neither, I'm sometimes confused by instructions from others that are visually based, and by icons, especially when the interface is solely icon based. Ick.

      -- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker
      Be sure to read my standard disclaimer if this is a reply.

        merlyn,
        Out of curiosity, are you able to solve those puzzles that give you some shape and ask to identify which other shape represents the original after some rotation or transformation. This is something men typically do better at then women. The other test that comes to mind is the one where you have some flat two dimensional shape and are asked which ones when folded along the edges will become boxes (or some other 3 dimensional shape).

        It is completely possible that your brain is compensating in some other way, but it seems to me remembering someone's face would be impossible without some form of visual recall. You can pick out yourself in a group photo right?

        Cheers - L~R

        P.S. If you are interested in synesthesia, I recommend The Man Who Tasted Shapes
        IIRC, 65% of people are primarily visual, 25% are primarily auditory, and 10% are kinesthetic. I'm in the 10%.

        While I can remember images and I can remember what was said, I don't naturally think either way.

        As you point out, this can make it difficult to understand directions and interfaces that are intended for visual people.

      Heh, odd, your list of colours is not entirely dissimilar to the colour coding of numbers on electronic components, like resistors. That list is:
      0 = black
      1 = brown
      2 = red
      3 = orange
      4 = yellow
      5 = green
      6 = blue
      7 = purple
      8 = grey
      9 = white
      

      Note that this code is partly based upon a normal rainbow, in the range from 2/red to 7/purple. On the low side, you can imagine it going to black over the intermediate colour between red and black: brown; but on the upper side, that isn't so cut-and-dried.

      In my past, I've been spending too long hunting through bags of resistors. Their colour codes have become fairly ingrained.

       0 = black
       1 = brown
       2 = red
       3 = orange
       4 = yellow
       5 = green
       6 = blue
       7 = purple
       8 = grey
       9 = white
      

      --

      Oh Lord, won’t you burn me a Knoppix CD ?
      My friends all rate Windows, I must disagree.
      Your powers of persuasion will set them all free,
      So oh Lord, won’t you burn me a Knoppix CD ?
      (Missquoting Janis Joplin)

      Wow, that really is interesting, never heard of that either. I wonder if that's the simple difference between people who dream in color or black and white... a slight case of synesthesia...

      Incidentally my brain is excruciatingly visual. For example, in school, I barely scraped off with a bottom dwelling B in algebra I and II. Geometry, however, was an A+ for me.

      --
      naChoZ

      Where in the nursery rhyme does it say Humpty Dumpty is an egg?

        I just barely made it through mathematics in high school just because of my more-or-less intuitive grasp of geometry and spatial puzzles. Ofcourse then I had to do real algebra in university which was quite difficult.

        I don't think my brain is very visual, but I do have trouble remembering people's names - I have to *remember* to remember their names, or I'll forget it in 5 minutes.

        On the other hand, I love idioms and weird information, and I have no trouble at all remembering those - my brain is full of trivia and out-dated expressions.

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by Ben Win Lue (Friar) on May 28, 2005 at 06:15 UTC
    I chose "spoken words", since this is the closest answer, but normally I do count without thinking. If it comes to very large numbers, I have to think while counting, but even then I think rather of abstract numbers than of the spoken words.

    My kids grabbed the idea of counting by using the words and counting random things, especially when playing board games.
    For learning simple arithmetic I make them use their fingers.

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by TedPride (Priest) on May 28, 2005 at 07:32 UTC
    I rarely count higher than 20 or so. It's too easy to lose track. Instead, I open Perl and use length - or if the string is more complicated, a regex - to count for me. I'm naturally lazy.
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by zentara (Archbishop) on May 28, 2005 at 11:29 UTC
    I often ponder infinity, and it's an 8 laying on it's side. :-)

    I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth. flash japh

      Coincidentally, I was idly browsing through PM user images earlier today and was fairly amused by the one on oha's home node, which illustrates this principle.

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by mikeraz (Friar) on May 28, 2005 at 11:57 UTC

    When I am counting things, like how many people in the room, I select chunks or groups of them. My grandfather taught me to do this while herding cattle.

    Grandfather: How many we got?
    Me: One, two, three . . .
    Grandfather: Don't count 'em one at a time. It's take all day. Watch, three, seven twelve ...

    So I look for a three and a five and a whatever other group my brain can recognize and sum up. The vocalized numerals come later.

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by TedPride (Priest) on May 28, 2005 at 22:07 UTC
    Well yes, if you're going to estimate how many there are of a large number of items, you decide on a set size, count numbers of sets, and multiply. But you still have to count.
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by jonadab (Parson) on May 29, 2005 at 11:47 UTC

    Am I too much of a math geek if I think of numbers as arbitrary objects, sets, functions, or variables? I guess "scalar" is the closest answer to that of the available choices...

    ("Sure, two plus two is four for standard values of two and four, and standard real number addition, but if two and four were operations and plus were function composition...")


    "In adjectives, with the addition of inflectional endings, a changeable long vowel (Qamets or Tsere) in an open, propretonic syllable will reduce to Vocal Shewa. This type of change occurs when the open, pretonic syllable of the masculine singular adjective becomes propretonic with the addition of inflectional endings."  — Pratico & Van Pelt, BBHG, p68

      I used "feelings", but there is really no accurate answer. See, a number is a number. If I'm counting, I think of numbers as representing the set of items I'm counting -- if I'm simply rattling off a series of numbers (counting nothing, if you will), then I'm not really thinking about what I'm doing anyhow.

      Numbers are simply symbols or signifiers we've given to represent concepts of quantity; they mean nothing without a unit, really. The abstract nature of them is why I answered "feelings" -- it seemed the closest to "abstract concepts which signify quantification" ;-)

      Yoda would agree with Perl design: there is no try{}

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by kutsu (Priest) on May 29, 2005 at 18:50 UTC

    I think of numbers as both sounds and images: when I count I see a sequence of numbers like 1, 2 3, .. 10, 1, 2, 3, .. 20 but I think of someone shouting ichi, ni, san .. ju. This has lead to some interesting looks when I count out loud ;).

    "Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - I think that I think, therefore I think that I am." Ambrose Bierce

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by ambrus (Abbot) on May 29, 2005 at 21:02 UTC

    I voted on "spoken words", but in a few rare cases, "other sound" applies too. Specifically, when I have to count some event repeating fast, I don't have time to think of the numbers as I would normally do, I just think of it as beats coming fast like "TUM tum tum tum Tum tum tum tum TUM tum tum" (in base 2, yeah), and then replay them more slowly, counting the beats. This works up to about twenty.

      Now that actually works but, being of musical bent, I tend to do it in 4,4, rather than 8,4, which your example seems to be in.

      That said, I suppose if you were expecting a multiple of seven or five, you could do some esoteric jazz piece

      Although 13 might be pushing it...

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by malaga (Pilgrim) on May 30, 2005 at 10:49 UTC
    feelings - closest to thoughts...i think. or maybe you can't think of something as a thought. but i feel maybe i can.
    Malaga
      Fingers, or any visual possibilities, like adding vertical bar | by group of 5
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by ailie (Friar) on May 31, 2005 at 01:53 UTC
    I have to go with "basic building blocks of thought" because I am almost always counting. I do it without even noticing it most of the time, and sometimes I count in cycles, like to 5 or 10 over and over. Usually I don't remember the total of whatever I count (steps I take, for instance) but I have had periods of time when it's been really important that things work out to multiples of 5 and the incessant counting has really gotten in the way of my life (OCD much?) but by and large it's just something I have going on in my head and I don't notice it much. It can actually be sort of calming and meditative.
      When doing menial and repetitve tasks I do that too. Like counting steps while hiking or carrying items back and forth. I just break it up into fours... ONE.2.3.4.TWO.2.3.4.THREE.... untill one hudred and then I just start over at one. I could go back and figure out the total steps but that isn't the point. It becomes almost zen-like after just a couple of minutes and allows you to focus on the task and enjoy it.

      Probably one of my many minor OCD things that drive my wife crazy.

      -Kurt

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by gregor42 (Parson) on May 31, 2005 at 13:48 UTC

    I voted for scalars since they are analogous to symbols which I think would be more accurate. However, the poll is flawed in breaking these cognitive exercises into mututally exclusive silos. (Perhaps it would be better as '..I usually think of numbers as...') When I think of numbers I think of symbols in relationship to each other which is sort've like positions, or beans, or the positions of beans. The symbols, like any given point in space - are meaningless without relationships to each other. But a symbol can be anything. That's what makes them so powerful & useful. Math with numbers is for computers - it's boring. Math with symbols is exciting because they represent ..ahem.. basic building block of thought.

    Though I must comment that like merlyn I memorize long numbers more by their rhythmic pattern and touchtone 'melody' than by anything else. I find that when I'm trying to remember a number I have to tap it into the keypad in the same rhythm to get it right. ATM codes, etc. are shorter so they don't suffer from that. (yet) It was interesting (to me) to hear I'm not the only one who does that - though perhaps not to the same degree.



    Wait! This isn't a Parachute, this is a Backpack!
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by gwhite (Friar) on May 31, 2005 at 15:01 UTC

    I have often wondered if people deaf from birth have internal "conversation" (talk to themselves), and those blind from birth how they "visualize" the layout of a room. Please no exhaustive dissertation on this, I just always wondered.

    g_White
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by renz (Scribe) on May 31, 2005 at 16:40 UTC
    I think scalars or words would be most accurate for me. In my opinion, language is the basis for constructing reality and any word is a symbol for some unique property or aspect of the universe. Numbers work mostly the same for me. We assign a word based on our language to the number. That word serves as my brain's reference to that number and symbolizes an amount or a status.

    /renz.
    "Call on God, but row away from the rocks."
    --Hunter S. Thompson.

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by petemar1 (Pilgrim) on Jun 01, 2005 at 10:01 UTC

    There should be an option for "other" and there should be an option for "it depends."

    Once, while learning how many edges exist in a complete graph Kn, and we worked with the example K4, when I closed my eyes I visualized a dim blue representation of the graph on a black field. Each edge adjacent on a partcular vertex (3 at a time in this case) illuminated a bright, neon blue in an alternating clockwise fashion, all in a span of less than half of a second. In counting the edges I saw the handshaking lemma in action with instances of some edges being lit 2 times in a row.

    I hastily muttered: "En-times-en-minus-one-over-two."

    I don't remember exactly what my professor was asking me prior to that moment. I did some pondering on the questions I was asked, but it all came together at that one brief instant.

    Mostly, I think of scalars.

      There are times that I envy those of you with these visual powers.

      On the other hand, I am never burdened asking myself (or others) "what does a scalar look like in memory?". I never cared. I deal with scalars as abstract entities, to which a series of operations can be performed. Without needing to "picture" everything (or even anything), I have learned different rules for manipulation that seem to solve some problems faster than others.

      Also, I'm crazy good at puns, since I hear similar words, rather than see similar things.

      -- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker
      Be sure to read my standard disclaimer if this is a reply.

        merlyn,
        Sorry, a pre-emptive (--) for when you start breaking out the puns. Pre-emptive strikes are the American way.


        Spem Successus Alit

        I've never done well with images either. I can sort of remember faces, but visualization has never come easy for me. I almost never see images when I think unless I actively try to build them in my head. I too am terrible at reconstructing torn down images. But I do love to play with language.

        Also, I tend to work backwards through almost everything. I take wide logical leaps and try to determine the mechanics it would take to legitimately arrive at those conclusions. Anyone else think that way?

        /renz.
        "Call on God, but row away from the rocks."
        --Hunter S. Thompson.

        Not me. I have to have the visual. For instance, I tend think of variables as gold bars. Sure, you can accomplish at lot with them, but they're unwieldly and lugging around a bunch of gold bars slows everything down. Wouldn't you really rather carry a nice scrap of paper in your pocket with a denomination written on it?? ;)

        --
        naChoZ

        Where in the nursery rhyme does it say Humpty Dumpty is an egg?

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by BurnOut (Beadle) on Jun 01, 2005 at 15:14 UTC

    I had to choose "feeling" because I really don't think of anything when I see a number. It's more a feeling. Like a number feeling "right" or "wrong."

    I can only do simple arithmetic in my head. I can't do things like carry numbers and whatnot. I lose track of the numbers. The things I can add and subtract are purely conditioning thanks to a teacher who recognized that there was a problem.

    When people say numbers, it always seems like I'm hearing them out of order and that they're being thrown at me. Even when I repeat them back, they seem wrong.

    If I have to remember a number, I either have to repeat it over and over or remember exactly how it looked when it was written down. Unfortunately, I also have a tendancy to confuse certain numbers - like I'll often confuse a seven for an eleven and an eight for a twelve. This is in addition to a dyslexic-like confusion of mixing up numbers on occassion.

    Part of the good news is that I'm fairly fast typist on the numeric keypad. I've found that this has bypassed several of the problems. I can key in a number like any normal human being. I think it's because at 90WPM, the processes is completely autonomous and I'm not quite seeing the number itself, just the keystrokes. On the other hand, if someone reads me the numbers or I slow down to think of them, I encounter the same old problems as before. Go figure.

    The other part of the good news is that when trying to piece together which customer payments went into which deposits, the answers seem to "pop out" at me. Like today, there was about thirty payments to match to varying deposits (but of course, we don't know what goes where yet). I looked at one deposit for $7892.11 and looked at the payments list to see which ones might have gone into that deposit, and two numbers popped out: $5245.05 and $2647.06. It happens all the time, and I can't explain it. But my co-workers are jealous :)

    If anyone's got a similar problem and has better work-arounds, please let me know.

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by dragonchild (Archbishop) on Jun 01, 2005 at 15:35 UTC
    I don't actually count very much when I'm assessing the quantity of something. I used to do a lot of "counting-" and "estimating-" type problems as a kid for fun, so I picked up a number of shortcuts that I used mentally. They're similar to the types of shortcuts I use when doing my "human calculator" parlor tricks. I kinda just get to the number and go from there.

    It's kinda like spanning the whole problemspace in your head and transformating it into the solutionspace in one large transformation. I don't do it as a function mapping two spaces as an algebraist would do ... well, maybe I do but that's not how I conceive of it.

    In a way, numbers are just like parts of my body - I don't think of how my fingers move when I type. I think of the words I want to see on the screen and my fingers type the right letters at the right time.

    This analogy is actually really close, because I have "typos" in my times tables. 8x7 is 56, but 7x8 is 48. I actually had to specifically memorize 7x8 separate from the rest of the times tables. It's almost like there's a hole in the grid where 7x8 should be. (But that's not how I conceive of it.)

    As for the way I think (visual, auditory, kinesthete, synesthete, etc) - I have no idea. I think I'm a balanced blend of all of them, but I don't have the crossover of senses that a synesthete has. I can mimic a photographic memory, but I can play by ear, too.


    • In general, if you think something isn't in Perl, try it out, because it usually is. :-)
    • "What is the sound of Perl? Is it not the sound of a wall that people have stopped banging their heads against?"
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by tbone1 (Monsignor) on Jun 02, 2005 at 13:55 UTC
    Maybe I'm some freak, but I've always considered numbers to be numbers, their own little class of things. I don't really relate them to anything other than the symbols that represent them ...

    Then again, I like open-wheel auto racing, so there y'are ...

    --
    tbone1, YAPS (Yet Another Perl Schlub)
    And remember, if he succeeds, so what.
    - Chick McGee

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by arc_of_descent (Hermit) on Jun 03, 2005 at 12:26 UTC

    I really need to brush up on my counting skills. I mostly use kcalc for even basic counting! :p

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by Anonymous Monk on Jun 03, 2005 at 12:29 UTC
    I think that when I count I think of the numbers as the objects that I'm counting !
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by techra (Pilgrim) on Jun 03, 2005 at 14:05 UTC
    I still count the dots in my mind when I'm doing addition or subtraction.
    ... ... <-- 6 ... . . . <-- 5 . .

      Well, there's your problem .. and mine. I saw a '9' the first time I saw your top diagram. Should be a '6'.

      The lower diagram was easy, though.

      Alex / talexb / Toronto

      "Groklaw is the open-source mentality applied to legal research" ~ Linus Torvalds

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by qedrakmar (Beadle) on Jun 03, 2005 at 15:11 UTC
    I think of counting numbers as... coming from a vampire muppet. But that's just me...
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by nothingmuch (Priest) on Jun 04, 2005 at 12:16 UTC
    When counting objects if they are distinct i make a mental image of them all, and move them around in it. Counting is done when I recognize clusters and sum them (batches of 4-5).

    If objects are not distinct but movable I use two or three fingers to move them across to another place, also summing.

    When objects can't move but are not distinct and too many I form a plan to iterate through them safely, and then usually count tens on my fingers, and ones in my head (i almost always roll back at some point: 47, 48, 49, 40).

    When I'm not counting things it depends on the scale, but I try to rely on summing more than incrementing, because incrementing gets me bored very quickly, and if I'm bored I make mistakes.

    -nuffin
    zz zZ Z Z #!perl
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by talexb (Canon) on Jun 06, 2005 at 18:59 UTC

    Really intriguing question, and, even more important (to me, anyway), really, really interesting answers. Especially merlyn's answers about having to make a mnemonic for the nameable but unstoreable object, then storing the name as a hash key.

    I still think of numbers on an X-axis, zero in the middle, positive numbers growing to the right, negative to the left. That's zoomed in, but zoom out a little and 1..10 seems to go up a slight hill and 11..20 seems to go down. I also see 'ledges' where you go up from 99 to 100.

    Of course, behind some of the numbers are little packages of information, for example, behind 52 is: address of house in Baie D'Urfe, number of weeks in a year, number of cards in a deck, one more than 3x17, 5^2 backwards ..

    And someone mentioned phone numbers .. I usually remember them by the pattern on the keypad .. for instance, a church might have the phone number 456-2580.

    Cool question.

    Alex / talexb / Toronto

    "Groklaw is the open-source mentality applied to legal research" ~ Linus Torvalds

      And someone mentioned phone numbers .. I usually remember them by the pattern on the keypad .. for instance, a church might have the phone number 456-2580.

      Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if the local jeweler were 342-6663 (DIAMOND on my keypad)? And, more generally, why isn't there DNS for phones yet?

        You were talking about having to describe a dance move to yourself ("Put right hand on hip") rather than being able to imitate it by watching it while someone else did it. Thus, I inferred that you could not store the move itself, but by naming the move, you were able to store and retrieve it properly. I may be guilty of trying to be too clever. :(

        Alex / talexb / Toronto

        "Groklaw is the open-source mentality applied to legal research" ~ Linus Torvalds

Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by Anonymous Monk on Aug 02, 2007 at 00:05 UTC
    Hello. I woke up from what I can only describe as a nightmare but it stands out for being so unusual. I was imagining numbers as indistinct pictures and this was terrifying enough to wake me up. I know, wierd. The strangest thing was that afterwards, just thinking about it, makes me feel physically sick, like some kind of reflex reaction. Does anyone have any ideas as it is making me feel very odd? Any replies please to shipwreckedmonkey@hotmail.com. Cheers!
Re: When I count, I think of numbers as...
by Anonymous Monk on Aug 02, 2007 at 08:57 UTC
    vaginas

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