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Renaming the Schwartzian Transform

by EvanCarroll (Chaplain)
on Sep 21, 2005 at 04:45 UTC ( #493658=perlmeditation: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

Fellow monks, I have a new and insightful meditation. I hereby make the suggestion that we rename the "Schwartzian Transform," to the "Evan Transform." I admit that the llama book is extremely well written, and that Randal Schwartz is probably one of the better Perl ninjas that hasn't ascended and joined the ranks of the ancients. However, let us all consider the consequence of his name. It is neither American English nor easy to remember, it gives new Perl programmers the sensation of med school study. The mere fact that his last name has a silly 'Z' is not enough, but look at the word 'wart' lying totally within Sch-wart-zian. Further evidence can be found by the fact that his name has four consecutive consonants, this is clearly unacceptable.

Lets consider for a moment the merits of my claim. "Evan" is easy to remember and simplifies spelling. Twenty-five percent of the letters that occur in Evan also occur in Perl. Evan is four letters, less typing allows programmers to be me more lazy, which according to Larry's philosophy is something that all programmers aspire for. Renaming the "Schwartzian Transform" to the "Evan Transform" would bring us one step closer to this goal.

I hope you give my consideration deep thought, and welcome the change to come.

Evan Carroll

Inspired by IRC™::
22:13 < StoneToad> funky name for a really useful thing :D ... 22:13 < hobbs> StoneToad: we'll tell Mr. Schwartz that you think his n +ame is funky ;) 22:14 < EvanCarroll> I should do that. ... 2:14 < EvanCarroll> I'm posting right now on perl monks, The Schwartzi +an trasnform is a stupid name for a usefull method, I suggest we rena +me it to the Evan Transform because the name "Evan" is l33t and short +. -- Evan Carroll 22:14 < Daveman> haha 22:15 < StoneToad> haha 22:15 < Daveman> evan, sounds good... ... 22:15 < StoneToad> sounds almost like spring water >_> 22:15 * StoneToad suggest the spring water transform, that'll really +confuse people

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Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by revdiablo (Prior) on Sep 21, 2005 at 06:08 UTC

    You proselytizing zealot.

    Update: the amount of seriousness by other Monks in this thread is making me slightly sad. :-(

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by cchampion (Curate) on Sep 21, 2005 at 06:34 UTC

    If it's supposed to be a joke, then it doesn't make me laugh, and let me tell you why:

    It is neither American English nor easy to remember

    Why does a good thing have to be American? What's so bad in being European, or Asian, African, Australian? That's not politically correct (for Americans) and insulting (for all the others, to whom I belong).

    his name has four consecutive consonants, this is clearly unacceptable

    Have you ever counted how many consecutive consonants are in abstract, breaststroke, offspring, catchphrase? 1

    Besides, if the Schwartzian Transform bothers you, just become well acquainted with it, and call it ST, like its friends do.


    1 update You may get more words by searching.
    perl -ne 'print if /[^-,._aeiouy]{6,6}/i' /usr/share/dict/word
      Testify sister !!!

      I'm with you - I suggest we rename it the Schwartzian "What are you laughing at, buddy!" Transform

      ...reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled. - R P Feynmann

      I would expect at least some sense of humor from fellow monks. You must suffer from a very bad case of inferiority complex to get so excited by a sentence like that.

      I would normally not upvote a joke node, but I did in this case due to your response.

      Jenda
      XML sucks. Badly. SOAP on the other hand is the most powerfull vacuum pump ever invented.

        You must suffer from a very bad case of inferiority complex if your only reason for upvoting something was because someone else didn't like it.
      You may get more words by searching.
      From my own personal dictionary, including lots of arcane, obsolete, and dubious entries:
      Longest: 6
      archchronicler
      bergschrund
      festschrift
      fruchtschiefer
      latchstring
      lengthsman
      postphthisic
      veldtschoen
      Funny how many of these seem to be Germanic in origin.

      Here's the code I used:

      -QM
      --
      Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of

      There's a London tube station "Knightsbridge".

      But I guess although that's English, it's rather unamerican too.

      Cheers, Sören

      PS: should "unamerican" be capitalised?

        There are a handful of English words with 6 consonants in a row. catchphrase and latchstring are probably the most well-known. There's also borschts, which has 6 consonants in a row, and all in the same syllable. Dubious is the word crwths, 6 letters in total and no obvious vowel. But in this original Welsh word, the w acts as a vowel. The ENABLE list, a freely available list of English words used by many on-line game sites, also lists tsktsks, a 7 letter word consisting of nothing but consonants.
Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by CountZero (Bishop) on Sep 21, 2005 at 06:35 UTC
    Well, to remain consistent, it should at least be called Evanian transform and that sounds too much like an ex-catwalk model gone past her "sell-by" date or some hip French table water. It would put Perl squarely in the middle of the hip crowd, whereas Schwartzian Transform has a rough worker-like ring to it which befits the Swiss Army Chainsaw of Programming Languages!

    ;-)

    CountZero

    "If you have four groups working on a compiler, you'll get a 4-pass compiler." - Conway's Law

      Well no, the former should really be called the Schwartz Transform. After all, we don't talk of Huffmanian encoding, Hammingian coding, Lempel-Ziff-Welshian compression or Blum-Blum-Shubbian PRNGs :)

      • another intruder with the mooring in the heart of the Perl

        Hmm, you're right, and those all have such nifty rings to them, I think I'll start doing that.

        .oO(Now is that pronounced huff-man-ee-an or huff-main-ee-an?)

        Tongue firmly in cheek for the humor impared

        -Scott

        I bow before your superior knowledge of the English language.

        But even then the "Evan Transform" doesn't sound that it can do the same heavy lifting the "Schwartz Transform" can.

        CountZero

        "If you have four groups working on a compiler, you'll get a 4-pass compiler." - Conway's Law

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by jacques (Priest) on Sep 21, 2005 at 06:39 UTC
    Jacques Transform has a nice ring to it. :)
      Wouldn't it be Jacques's Transform? But then you end up with too many esses. :)
        No need to be possessive, neither of Fourier and Laplace were.
Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by Courage (Parson) on Sep 21, 2005 at 08:20 UTC
    Schwartz, when written in Russian, only 5 letters long and is very easy to use and remember.

    That name's inconvenience is actually unfortunate effect of English spelling of non-English name, so go to linguist forum and explain there how bad spelling in English works.

    Best regards,
    Courage, the Cowardly Dog

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by Taulmarill (Deacon) on Sep 21, 2005 at 08:30 UTC
    <joke>i would vote for "Jürgens Veränderung", because it has umlauts in it and is 100% german, not those half german half english "Schwartzian". to rename Transform to it's german equivalent is only consistent.</joke>

    oh, and by the way, if this is not a joke:
    you seem to be a very bored person, take your work and energy somewhere usefull.
Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by Anonymous Monk on Sep 21, 2005 at 09:30 UTC
    Since 'Schwartz' is close to the German 'schwarz', meaning 'black', and since for most people, the Schwartzian Transform is sufficiently advanced, I propose to rename the Schwartzian Transform to Black Magic.
Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by b10m (Vicar) on Sep 21, 2005 at 10:33 UTC

    As described in the ChatterBox, I downvoted this node for one reason:

    However, let us all consider the consequence of his name. It is neither American English nor easy to remember ... "Evan" is easy to remember and simplifies spelling.

    Regardless of humour, I tend to dislike a US-selfcentered view of the world and this is a perfect illustration. The arrogance used to claim "Evan" is easier to remember than "Schwartz" is ridiculous, and I see this behaviour too often to believe it's really 'humourous'. Therefor: --

    --
    b10m

    All code is usually tested, but rarely trusted.

      Could it be that he was kidding? I know its a long shot but maybe this was just a joke? Nah your right, he was seriously implying that everything on the net should be in english and that we should change the name of the Schwartzian transform. Come on. I wonder if all the downvotes are because he used "american", what if he had said "british" or canadian, or french. I do find it rather amusing that the anit-american attitude is soo strong, while I haven't heard any americans be anit-anything. Perhaps I don't listen well enough to catch those, its possible. Either way it was a joke and meant to be over the top. You didn't take issue with "silly z." I mean Z is my favorite letter, that arrogant bastard calling my z silly, I think i'll downvote him. You're all free to vote how you feel obviously, but do remember it was a joke even if it flopped in your eyes it was meant as humor not political commentary.


      ___________
      Eric Hodges
      I tend to dislike a US-selfcentered view of the world...and I see this behaviour too often to believe it's really 'humourous'.

      But:

      • We are self-centered (and arrogant too! -- just look at our President! )
      • Mr. Schwartz is American (which doesn't prove anything, but I thought I'd point it out)
      • It is humorous (what's up with you Europeans always putting extra u's in words anyway?)
        It is humorous (what's up with you Europeans always putting extra u's in words anyway?)

        What's with Americans forgetting how to pronounce them? The inflection in prononunciation between how 'humor' and 'humour' is slight and subtle, but it exists.

        Or do you prononounce "our" and "or" the same way, too?

        Too often, Americans systematically mis-pronounce words, then gripe that other people aren't spelling the word "correctly", since it no longer matches the pronunciation. I've even seen Texans complain about spelling the "get" with an 'e' instead of an 'i'!

        So, the real answer is: "'cause you're wrong, you semi-educated hick", but of course, most people are too polite to say that, and the Americans just get all offended if they do, because anything done "The American Way" is by definition correct. *sigh*

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by zentara (Archbishop) on Sep 21, 2005 at 10:58 UTC
    Personally, I think having unique names enhances my ability to remember it. Evanian, although it sounds nice, would quickly sink into obscurity in the ocean of perl-memory-fragments. Whereas Schwartzian, stands out like a marker-buoy, which is immediately evoked whenever I hear the word "transform".

    I bet it will be a Jeopardy question some day. ;-)


    I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth. flash japh
Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by Anonymous Monk on Sep 21, 2005 at 11:20 UTC
    I don't have much trouble in writing 'Schwartzian Transform'. But who cares how it's written? The 'Gutt?man-Ross?ler Transform' is generally faster anyway, and that's what we should learn to our kids. But I can never remember how many t's and s'ses I need in 'GRT'. :\ Can't we just rename GRT to 'beer'? That's easy to spell, and allows us to talk about Perl on the NY.pm mailing list while staying on topic.
Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by Tanktalus (Canon) on Sep 21, 2005 at 14:29 UTC

    Personally, I'm disappointed at the downvotes. I always thought that when one made a joke here in a direction that would normally be unpopular, one was supposed to go over the top to make it obvious that there was a joke going on here - after all, you can't see body language in a posting on the 'net. For example, my highest-rated joke post. Garnering such a decent reputation for that node, I thought, was a validation of this theory.

    I suppose there are too many nationalists bringing their nationalistic politics to their voting here to see the humour. Which is unfortunate, because I've seen very little other signs of politic-based-anything here.

    Don't get me wrong - I can be as nationalistic as the next person, but I don't need to use that as a gauge of humour. Being Canadian, I scoff at being called American, but Southpark's "Blame Canada" was still funny.

      Yeah, I'm kind of baffled at the reaction here too. Maybe your node was more well-received because more Monks recognize you, and realize that you are usually helpful and serious? I guess it goes to show how unpredictable other peoples' votes are sometimes. :-)

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by sauoq (Abbot) on Sep 21, 2005 at 16:51 UTC

    I laughed. ++

    -sauoq
    "My two cents aren't worth a dime.";
    
Speaking of 7 consonants in a row
by Your Mother (Canon) on Sep 21, 2005 at 19:17 UTC

    I thought it was pretty funny too and ++'d it to try to make up for the inexplicable cold reception. I am compelled to point out, however, that "Evan" is not English. It's Welsh. And we all know what those people are like.

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by QM (Vicar) on Sep 21, 2005 at 20:22 UTC
    "May the Schwartz be with you".

    Damn, late again.

    -QM
    --
    Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by monarch (Priest) on Sep 22, 2005 at 03:22 UTC
    I am not too fond of the name, however it has gained widespread acceptance, not least due to one individual's efforts to publicise it.

    I do not credit, however, the discovery of this way of sorting records to the man with the name. I have found myself doing things this way long before I arrived at perlmonks. And I have not read any articles or books by the man with the name attributed to the transform.

    However, to keep things simple, as we all must strive for, the name has been given and changing it would only mark an ego vs pragmatism battle.

      I do not credit, however, the discovery of this way of sorting records to the man with the name. I have found myself doing things this way long before I arrived at perlmonks.

      The Schwartzian Transform was named Schwartzian Transform many years before Perlmonks even existed. Lore goes that the name was given by Randals arch nemesis, Tom Christiansen. Oldest reference to 'Schwartzian Transform' I could find using Google groups dates from 1995: <4b2eag$odb@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>.

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by mojotoad (Monsignor) on Sep 22, 2005 at 06:28 UTC
    I see your Evan bigger than his is. Let's see how well you use it.

    Matt ;)

Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by McDarren (Abbot) on Sep 22, 2005 at 06:41 UTC
    Personally, I think Schwartzian Transform is entirely appropriate and describes it perfectly

    Schwartzian - only merlyn could come up with something like that.
    Transform - it transforms my brain into mush when I try to get my head around it.

    -- Darren
Re: Renaming the Schwartzian Transform
by Anonymous Monk on Sep 23, 2005 at 20:45 UTC
    Well, "schwartz" means "black", which also means "evil".

    So I say we rename it the "Evil Transform". Which it is. :-)

      Nice idea, way too late. Tom Christiansen, who named it the Schwartzian Transform in the first place, made the connection in 1996.

      Between the mind which plans and the hands which build, there must be a mediator... and this mediator must be the heart.

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