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Re^2: Consider this: What makes a good node title?

by sauoq (Abbot)
on Nov 04, 2005 at 16:52 UTC ( #505775=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Consider this: What makes a good node title?
in thread Consider this: What makes a good node title?

All we'd have done is reinforced their naivete, not helped them to learn how the big boys work.

I don't even know where to start with that comment. It smacks of self-aggrandizing egotism. We are the "big boys" and it is our job to eliminate their "naivete", huh? C'mon... let's lose the drama and put things in perspective. We are here to provide help with Perl. Our purpose is no grander than that; nor need it be; nor could we fulfill it if it were.

-sauoq
"My two cents aren't worth a dime.";


Comment on Re^2: Consider this: What makes a good node title?
Re^3: Consider this: What makes a good node title?
by spiritway (Vicar) on Nov 04, 2005 at 19:50 UTC

    Perhaps if you take another look, you'll see what I actually wrote instead of what you say I wrote. First, I did not say we're the "big boys". I said we're the Monastery. The big boys are out there in the "real" world. Second, I did not say our job is to eliminate anyone's naivete. I suggested that we would be doing a disservice to people by fostering their naivete. There is a significant difference between the two statements.

    What you have done is to distort my words to make them more extreme, and then shown that the extreme position is untenable. That is known, among other things, as a "straw man" argument. It is specious.

    As for any supposed "self-aggrandizing egotism", that statement is false. I am one of the newer people here. I am brand new to Perl. I can't write even a simple script without having to check the books to see just how it's done - and when I do finally get something written, it looks suspiciously like C, because that's the language I'm coming from. I have no illusions about being a top Perl programmer, or even a competent one. I have a long way to go.

    Still, despite all this, I would prefer that I not be talked down to, that the language I am asked to use here match that language that is used outside the Monastery. Yes, it's nice to know that when I get stuck, someone will likely come along and explain something to me, but I still feel it's a good thing to be allowed to flounder as I grope my way to understanding. Babying me now only delays the time when I must learn all the stuff I need to know. "Out there" there aren't likely to be so many helpful, understanding people, as here in the Monastery (present company excepted). I much prefer to learn as much as I can here, before getting knocked around in the so-called real world.

    Sorry if I didn't give your idea my complete approval, but I'm entitled to my opinions, as are we all.

      What you have done is to distort my words to make them more extreme, and then shown that the extreme position is untenable.

      I'll retract my third sentence in the referenced reply in favor of this somewhat more verbose rewording:

      We can can help them learn how the "big boys" work, huh? And we are able to avoid reinforcing their naivete, eh? All by retitling their nodes?

      I stand by the rest of that reply in its entirety, your attempted rebuttal notwithstanding.

      Sorry, but highlighting the subtle but contemptible attitude implied in your post does not a straw man argument make.

      As for any supposed "self-aggrandizing egotism", that statement is false. I am one of the newer people here.

      Well, I meant that in more of a group-think sort of way than you personally. It's hard to explain—which is, I guess, why I didn't. Suffice it to say that I've come to expect statements like yours from a certain class of individuals that seem overly preoccupied with their own elitism. Unfortunately, newbies sometimes latch on to that attitude as some sort of banner and wave it vigorously in an attempt to show that they belong.

      I'll take the humility evident in your reply as evidence enough that I was wrong in assuming that's what was going on in this case. So, I'm sorry about that.

      Still, without the context of your reply, your statement is basically indistinguishable from some of that banner wavin' and I do encourage you to think about what you are implying.

      -sauoq
      "My two cents aren't worth a dime.";
      
        We can can help them learn how the "big boys" work, huh? And we are able to avoid reinforcing their naivete, eh? All by retitling their nodes?

        Ah, that's still not what I said, nor what I implied. You highlighted what wasn't there to begin with, and then knocked down that attitude. That is a straw man attack, which is a fallacy.

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