Re: People who write perl, Perl and PERL

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Re^2: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by shotgunefx (Parson) on Nov 21, 2005 at 05:07 UTC
There's a difference between being passionate about something and being knowledgeable about something. Though I think Perl attracts more people who are passionate then some other languages... I disagree about people using CPAN and not contributing. I think people who benefit, should want to contribute and should if there able, but I don't think it's a mandate. If Linux finally gets a large share of the desktop space, would end users be in the wrong for not subscribing to the kernel lists or submitting patches? -Lee perl digital dash (in progress)	[reply]
Re^3: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by merlyn (Sage) on Nov 21, 2005 at 05:14 UTC
The Linux desktop is not a programming language. I would expect Linux developers to be aware of the various Linux programming community areas. I would not expect Aunt Sally in Accounting using Linux on her desktop to be aware of such things, any more than I would expect a match.com user to have a Perlmonks handle. However, I would expect the programmers of match.com to have a Perlmonks handle, and know about rt.perl.org, and so on. That's what I'm arguing here. To be an effective Perl programmer, you're in the community because that's part of being an effective Perl programmer. Hence, the "PERL" shibboleth is valid, as far as I'm concerned. -- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker Be sure to read my standard disclaimer if this is a reply.	[reply]
Re^4: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by shotgunefx (Parson) on Nov 21, 2005 at 10:42 UTC
Kind of two different points here. The linux example was more directed toward using software without contributing. Personally, I think a competent programmer is a competent programmer. It's irrelevant if he doesn't know the social conventions of the community surrounding it. It speaks little to how they can apply that tool. It's like jumping all over someone for not knowing how to pronounce something. Just because they can't say it right, doesn't mean they don't understand it. -Lee perl digital dash (in progress)	[reply]
Re^4: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by Perl Mouse (Chaplain) on Nov 21, 2005 at 09:54 UTC
I would expect Linux developers to be aware of the various Linux programming community areas. So do I. And I'd expect that of the perl developers as well. I do not expect that Perl programmers to join "the community" - it's nice if they do, but there are other nice things to do with your time as well. `Perl --((8:>*`	[reply]
Re^4: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by Anonymous Monk on Jul 23, 2008 at 22:11 UTC
Randal, I strongly disagree that to be an effective Perl programmer you have to dive deep int othe community. Nor does one have to subscribe to all of their beliefs. If "Practical Extraction and Report Language" appears on the first page of perldoc, what is wrong with compressing that into PERL ?	[reply]
Re^5: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by Jenda (Abbot) on Jul 24, 2008 at 15:06 UTC
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Re^2: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by g0n (Priest) on Nov 21, 2005 at 08:34 UTC
My first response to your post as a lifelong antisocial non-joiner of things was unthinking disagreement, until I thought for a minute about my progress in Perl. I had been using Perl for a couple of years before contributing to CPAN and then ending up a regular here, and I think my Perl (and programming knowledge generally) has shifted into a new (and much higher) gear since I started engaging with the community. Plus of course I now have a better idea of just how much more there is to know. Engaging with the community is the difference between a programmer who blindly relies on the tools provided in the form of published modules, and hence works always within external constraints; and one who really knows that, if they find a bug or shortcoming in a CPAN module, they can fix it themselves. Put in vaguer but more general terms, the horizons of a community connected perl programmer are probably broader. As an added bonus, it's probably fair to say that a perl-er who engages with the community is more likely to have a more realistic assessment of their own skill level than one who doesn't. I'm not sure it's entirely true to say that one can't be 'into' Perl without engaging with the community, in the sense of being an enthusiast for the language, but it seems likely that one could reasonably expect higher standards from someone who does. To address cogs point, sometimes it seems that monks make too much of the correct capitalisation of perl/Perl/PERL. Personally, I often miss out the initial capital when posting because I'm so used to typing: `perl myscript.pl` -------------------------------------------------------------- "If there is such a phenomenon as absolute evil, it consists in treating another human being as a thing." John Brunner, "The Shockwave Rider".	[reply] [d/l]
Re^2: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by Perl Mouse (Chaplain) on Nov 21, 2005 at 09:51 UTC
I've seen estimates of the number of Perl programmers to be somewhere between 100,000 and 1,000,000. My estimate is that the number of people that are part of the "community" are at most a few thousand, of which most aren't "making a contribution". If I look around me at my current employers, and several of my previous employers, there are Perl programmers (and people programming in Perl) at all of them. Except myself, none had any interest in participating in "the community". Besides Perl, I also use (or have used) C, shell, Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, MySQL, Sybase, awk and a few other things a lot. I've never been involved in their communities either. `Perl --((8:>*`	[reply]
Re^2: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by thor (Priest) on Nov 21, 2005 at 12:26 UTC
It's not cool to simply be tapping the CPAN because it's there. Being cool and being effective are. for the most part, orthogonal concepts. Just ask the stereotypical 1950's accountant. :-) Speaking to the topic at hand...it it possible to become a very good Perl programmer armed with only the docs that come with perl and by having a take-only mindest with respect to CPAN. Does this disqualify that person from making informed hiring decisions with respect to Perl programmers? In my opinion, not at all. thor `Feel the white light, the light within Be your own disciple, fan the sparks of will For all of us waiting, your kingdom will come`	[reply]
Re^2: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by gnat (Beadle) on Nov 21, 2005 at 23:28 UTC
It's not cool to simply be tapping the CPAN because it's there That's pretty dogmatic. It's an organic system with room for many roles: some people consume, some only occasionally produce, some produce full-time. As Larry says, there's more than one way to do it. There's no point demanding CPAN contributions from people who aren't in a position to make them, or who don't want to. If you want more CPAN contributions, work to ensure that contributing is easy, fun, and rewarding. --Nat	[reply]
Re^2: People who write perl, Perl and PERL by Anonymous Monk on Nov 21, 2005 at 05:41 UTC
That sound's a lot like; If you wanna play with my ball, you gotta play by my rules. If active participation in the vaunted "Perl community" is a prerequisite for using perl and CPAN, then that should be a clear and obvious part of the licence agreement. It isn't. Why not? Perhaps, because it would be "open source" if it were.	[reply]
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