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Re^7: PERL as shibboleth and the Perl community

by merlyn (Sage)
on Nov 23, 2005 at 15:42 UTC ( #511134=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^6: PERL as shibboleth and the Perl community
in thread PERL as shibboleth and the Perl community

chromatic is implying if not saying right out that you spell it "PERL", you're at best sloppy and at worst incapable.
Correct, and that again doesn't disagree with what I said, and I agree with chromatic.

I think both he and I are distinguishing two things which you are collapsing together. Consider that what it takes to "be a good Perl programmer" (as in, understand the language from its definition) as separate from what it would mean to work for someone who demands paying attention to detail. It's about individual vs team. He and I seem to agree that spelling it PERL means you don't get to be part of our team, even though you may be a hot-shot Perl programmer.

Does that make it clearer? That's why I challenged your statement: "PERL" is a clue that you're not a team player, even though you may be a fine "Perl programmer".

-- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker
Be sure to read my standard disclaimer if this is a reply.


Comment on Re^7: PERL as shibboleth and the Perl community
Re^8: PERL as shibboleth and the Perl community
by thor (Priest) on Nov 23, 2005 at 16:12 UTC
    "PERL" is a clue that you're not a team player
    And I respectfully disagree with that statement. If you spell it "PERL", it means a couple of things:
    1. You've not read perlfaq1
    2. You've not participated in a perlmonks thread where such a distinction was made

    The first is not particularly egregious. perlfaq1 answers other such pressing questions as "Where can I get a list of Larry Wall witticisms?" and "What is a JAPH?". Questions for the ages I'm sure, but nothing in there would lead me to believe that the person is not a team player.

    The second is even less so. As far as I can tell, the Monestary isn't mentioned anywhere "official". That is to say that it isn't mentioned in the docs as being the place for all your Perl needs. I stumbled upon it almost 5 years ago, and I'm sure that others have done so similarly.

    And so, I ask, what is it about spelling it "PERL" that indicates that someone is not a team player? Is it that they haven't read the part of the official documentation least likely to help them in their day to day work, or that they haven't followed every conversation on the unofficial place for Perl questions?

    thor

    Feel the white light, the light within
    Be your own disciple, fan the sparks of will
    For all of us waiting, your kingdom will come

      And I respectfully disagree with that statement. If you spell it "PERL", it means a couple of things:
      1. You've not read perlfaq1
      2. You've not participated in a perlmonks thread where such a distinction was made
      Don't forget the other important reasons...
      1. You know perfectly well what the difference is, but you like to see busy-body perlmonks blow a gasket.
      2. You're trying to win a bet as to who can create the most inane node at perlmonks.
      3. A college has expressed admiration and respect for the likes of Randal and Chromatic, and you want to show him they're just ordinary people who can be trolled like the rest of us.

        A college has expressed admiration and respect for the likes of Randal and Chromatic, and you want to show him they’re just ordinary people who can be trolled like the rest of us.

        You mean a colleague, not a college, right?

        Makeshifts last the longest.

      To me it indicates more than that: you haven't read the good Perl books, you aren't aware of the good Perl websites, you aren't familiar with the writings of the good Perl authors and programmers -- or if you know all those things, you either haven't noticed that they all write "Perl", not "PERL", or you don't care.

      It's like misspelling my name or the name of my company in your cover letter. I know what you mean, but it's a silly mistake you could easily have corrected.

        (that) you haven't read the good Perl books
        If every good Perl book mentioned in it "it's Perl, not PERL", then I'd be very put off if I were someone trying to gain entry into the language (why dwell on such a minor issue?). However, as both you and I know, most books don't explicitly make this distinction. So, even if I had read the "good" Perl books, the "proper" spelling of Perl could be implied at best.
        (that) you aren't aware of the good Perl websites
        My previous argument in the grandparent node about the monestary and my statements above about Perl literature should sufficiently address this point.
        (that) you aren't familiar with the writings of the good Perl authors and programmers
        Where else would good Perl authors and programmers write other than in books and on websites? See previous argments.
        or if you know all those things, (that) you either haven't noticed that they all write "Perl", not "PERL", or you don't care.
        Except, as stated in another part of this topic, here and here
        It's like misspelling my name or the name of my company in your cover letter. I know what you mean, but it's a silly mistake you could easily have corrected.
        Err...not quite. In looking at a lot of the books on my shelf right now, I see a lot of the titles are in all capital letters ("APPLIED COMBINATORICS", "LINEAR ALGEBRA AND ITS APPLICATIONS", "THE ART OF WAR", etc). Does this mean that it's wrong to refer to them in a different capitalization ("Applied Combinatorics", "Linear Algebra and its Applications", "The Art of War")? Moreover, the logo for my company spells out the company name in all capital letters. However, the name of the company is most often refered to in title case. Misspelling is one thing; differing capitalization is another.

        And, because I just thought of it, to paraphrase one of the mottoes of the Perl community is "be liberal in what you accept and strict in what you produce". The attitude that "PERL" is absolutely incorrect flies in the face of this somewhat, wouldn't you say?

        thor

        Feel the white light, the light within
        Be your own disciple, fan the sparks of will
        For all of us waiting, your kingdom will come

Re^8: PERL as shibboleth and the Perl community
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Nov 23, 2005 at 16:50 UTC

    In common with a lot of people, you are confusing "being a team player" with "thinking the way you do", or "taking on your opinions verbatim".

    If you need that much to be the boss; if renounciation of the power for independant thought is a condition of becoming your employee; if membership of your club is predicated upon such inane criteria; then perhaps it is time for all Perl programmers with half a brain to start spelling it PERL.


    Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
    Lingua non convalesco, consenesco et abolesco. -- Rule 1 has a caveat! -- Who broke the cabal?
    "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
    In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

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