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Re^3: Seeking inside-out object implementations

by perrin (Chancellor)
on Dec 06, 2005 at 21:44 UTC ( #514647=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: Seeking inside-out object implementations
in thread Seeking inside-out object implementations

Most people expect to be able to serialize things with Storable, and many modules like MLDBM or CGI::Session/Apache::Session depend on it. It's not an esoteric concern. Neither is easy debugging with Data::Dumper or the 'x' command in the debugger. Thread use may not be widespread, but serialization is.


Comment on Re^3: Seeking inside-out object implementations
Re^4: Seeking inside-out object implementations
by revdiablo (Prior) on Dec 07, 2005 at 00:24 UTC
    Most people expect to be able to serialize things

    Just to be clear, we are talking about object serialization, right? I would certainly say serialization of data structures is common, but I was talking about objects in specific. That's something I haven't really ever had the need for in Perl. I don't see a whole lot of people asking how to do it, either (either here or in #perl). Because of this, I assumed it wasn't very common. I'm not saying this assumption is correct, of course, just explaining how I arrived at it. I'll just have to suspend judgement for now, I guess.

      I may see this more than most because it comes up frequently on the mod_perl and Class::DBI lists, but yes, people expect to be able to serialize objects. Every caching system for Perl uses Storable, and people expect to cache objects. Same for sessions.
Re^4: Seeking inside-out object implementations
by herveus (Parson) on Dec 08, 2005 at 15:57 UTC
    Howdy!

    Perl programmers have come to expect to be able to get at the innards of objects easily -- that the internals are *not* encapsulated in any meaningful way. One can fairly argue that that creates a number of weaknesses and/or potentially fatal problems -- problems that would exist in some fashion any time an object is not opaque. Consider the risks one would take by making the attributes of a Jave class public.

    Inside-out objects do encapsulate quite fiercely, and are very opaque. If one needs to serialize an opaque object, that object needs to provide that capability itself. One might expect a standard mechanism for doing that. "to_string" might be a suitable method name. I think PBP advocates creating just such a routine for this purpose.

    It sort of comes down to "managing expectations", and, particularly, changing those expectations.

    yours,
    Michael

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