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Re: A New Respect

by Intrepid (Deacon)
on Mar 15, 2006 at 13:20 UTC ( #536822=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to A New Respect

ReGreetings, Monklies and Perlverts.

It's been a few days now since my posting (the top node of this threaded discussion). I've got a followup now for a couple different perceived audiences among my readers. If you want the tone to be conciliatory or repentive and want to spend no more than 18.4 seconds reading, give up now.

First for some: my wee heart isn't lying broken and bleeding on the floor, never fear. The thing about being hurt by the words of others, for me: only what comes across to me with sincerity will I take to heart. And some of the hurtful things I've heard in my life from people who had some sincerity towards me, have been among the most helpful to my eventual growth and progress. The stuff that's been said to me (purportedly) or about me, above, mostly doesn't consititute having come from sincerity, so it doesn't mean much.

For some others: snap judgements are as cheap as the electrons they float on. Anybody can make a snap judgement. It not only lacks the sincerity I spoke of above, which is something that is expensive for humans to produce from their insides, but it also takes no great gift of intelligence to emit. Kudos to those who just downvoted in order to see how low the node was rated ("gasp! who would do that?" ;-) without having to give in to the compulsion to slap a snap judgement on the pile too.

For readers in general:

Truthtellers in the Monastery will remember that I have been holding a viewpoint about the value of the XP and node reputation system here for years, that is different from the majority opinion.

There are those who will rant that discounting the node rep votes on something I post is tantamount to being a "troll". As with much else, that's a radical oversimplification. You can only reduce the words used to describe the truth so far, before the truth gets damaged and then vanishes. To dumb-down the definition of what a "troll" is so far that it turns out as "anyone who posts to Perlmonks but doesn't care what people think of his posting (as manifested by node rep)" is so violently stupid-minded that it comprises sort of a litmus test for me: If you are so dumb that you will buy this ersatz version of the truth, I don't want to have any sort of meta-relationship with you anyway. Call it personal Darwinism if you like - thinning the herd. People who have a disability like mongoloidism, for example, or autism; and have good open hearts, bravery and compassion for others; I want to know -- I'd feel priviliged to know. Self-described "kewl outcast hax0rs" or "BOFHs" with all their shallow, fragile self-respect riding on their computer cleverness who then cannot be bothered to do the work of honestly trying to read with comprehension fairly short articles by others, I don't need to know.

If you are one of the people listed in the top node (or the document cited in that node), or part of their gang, and you think you came off to the readership in a reply as if you had "really tried to give that stubborn, *#*%$!# Intrepid some good advice for his own sake", then please realize that if you were cited as having lost my respect awhile ago (as by having been noted on the list on my home node), nobody with the first clue about human beings is going to believe that your 'searing (but well-intentioned!) reply' constituted an attempt to be productive or helpful. The verbal sparring that continues in the cb and on this node doesn't constitute a good-faith effort to resolve the issues I've decided to raise above. Neither obvious self-defense moves nor spinning accusations around on the 'blamer' constitute a good-faith effort to turn these lemons into orangeade.

      Soren Andersen -Intrepid-


Comment on Re: A New Respect
Re^2: A New Respect
by ptum (Priest) on Mar 15, 2006 at 15:36 UTC

    As it is written, "XP is an imaginary number, given to you by a stranger."

    But seriously, it is also a way to see if what you say is perceived to have value, either because of an intrinsic value associated with your position, because of the way you say it, or because of who you are. Personally, I really like getting feedback on the things I write -- it helps me know when I come across as a jerk, and when I come across as a helpful person. I can use such guidance to adjust my real-world communication skills.

    Some people are primarily internally referent, and others are more externally referent. There have been lots of interesting experiments demonstrating this with rooms that weren't square and desks that slant. You may be an internally referent person, and so you can say with some honesty that you (mostly) don't care what other people think of you. But I think you can go too far in hardening yourself from the opinions of others -- in extremity, this borders on psychopathy:

    "A psychopath is defined as having no concern for the feelings of others and a complete disregard for any sense of social obligation."

    I'm not calling you a psychopath. I'm trying to demonstrate through reductio ad absurdum logic that anyone who interacts with a community is, in some sense, accountable to that community, whether they like it or not. If a large part of a community thinks you have behaved in an immature manner, then you are foolish to write them off; better to humble yourself and accept reproof (even some that is undeserved) than to persist in arrogance. I would say that the negative reputation of your original node indicates that three out of four monks don't appreciate either: a) your ideas, b) the way you are presenting them, or c) they just plain don't like you. Personally, I only downvote if I don't like the way someone presents their ideas, so that might be a good place to start.

    I had hoped, when I read the title of this original node, that you had committed yourself to treating the denizens of PerlMonks with "a new respect" -- that you were trying to make a fresh start. I think that option is still available to you.

    For the record, this comment is 'sincere' and intended in a kindly way. I am not allied with any of the people you negatively reference in your letter or your first posting on this subject, and I've been around enough to see a little of what has gone on in the Chatterbox, so I don't think you can dismiss me as having made a 'snap judgement'. But if you don't want to accept what I have to say, I'm sure you can find some pretext. :)


    No good deed goes unpunished. -- (attributed to) Oscar Wilde
Re^2: A New Respect
by Anonymous Monk on Mar 15, 2006 at 16:55 UTC
    I thought this thread was about the interaction between you and the other CB monks? How'd it go into the XP system?
    The stuff that's been said to me (purportedly) or about me, above, mostly doesn't consititute having come from sincerity, so it doesn't mean much.
    That right there is why people don't get along with you. You absolve all chances of any responsibility in the least that you are part of the problem. If you continue on like this, no one will ever see you as a nice person, or someone that is nice but just disagree with. You'll become a troll.

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