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Re^5: RFC: Acme::BottomsUp

by shmem (Canon)
on Aug 19, 2006 at 08:12 UTC ( #568326=note: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^4: RFC: Acme::BottomsUp
in thread RFC: Acme::BottomsUp

Why does this remind me inmediately of the scene in Monty Python's "Life Of Brian" where an old man is stoned for uttering the word "Jehova"?

Your offense does not consist in construing an offense to Christianity of some uttered words (which to my eyes seems silly^Wfunny) but in going from there to an ad hominem attack charging the poster with lack of decency and respect for others.

I'm not insisting that everyone agree with me, but I am asking that when you drive past my house, you refrain from throwing garbage on my lawn.

Well, perlmonks isn't your lawn...

--shmem - unbaptized christian (which statement could be taken also as offense to established Christianity[tm], but I really don't care...)

_($_=" "x(1<<5)."?\n".q/)Oo.  G\        /
                              /\_/(q    /
----------------------------  \__(m.====.(_("always off the crowd"))."
");sub _{s./.($e="'Itrs `mnsgdq Gdbj O`qkdq")=~y/"-y/#-z/;$e.e && print}


Comment on Re^5: RFC: Acme::BottomsUp
Re^6: RFC: Acme::BottomsUp
by Intrepid (Deacon) on Sep 03, 2006 at 00:17 UTC
    shmem wrote
    Your offense does not consist in construing an offense to Christianity of some uttered words (which to my eyes seems silly^Wfunny) but in going from there to an ad hominem attack charging the poster with lack of decency and respect for others.

    I differ with this opinion in several regards. On one hand, I think ptum did a "good job" of presenting his point of view in a thoughtful and also a restrained manner. I do not see the ad hominum attack mentioned by shmem. I think that if shmem and others see a "charge of lack of decency and respect for others", they'd be doing me a big favor by posting a quote of such so that I can see clearly which words did so.

    edit 03.09.06: acknowledgement of shmem's response below. I did not read down to that depth thoroughly (replies to replies). Thus I demonstrate my fallibility :-)

    On another hand, I do not think it would be possible to post any reply to this utterance of DrHyde's without it being interpreted as an ad hominum attack by many readers. It's a given that people are going to read "personal attack" into it, no matter what words are chosen, because this is not about some neutral question of computer management or programming technique (for example). The matter is innately personal and laden with emotional meaning.

    edit 02.09.06: on suggestion of planetscape, clarify grammar in next paragraph

    I'd like to suggest that a lot of bandwidth could be saved at Perlmonks if people found themselves able to stop defending thoughtless, ignorant, casual idiocy (whether done in nodes or on the chatterbox) as being some precious human right that's under attack by "uptight dorks"; and instead at the very least, let people who are pointlessly offended offended by pointless ("casual"?) insensitivity speak up for themselves, as ptum has, without frying them for it.

    On the third hand, people have been taking the name (or honorific title, which is what Christ is -- it's a Greek word, not anything on Jesus's birth certificate) of this figure "in vain" for thousands of years, and DrHyde's coarse language is no different from that (some readers will know the sort of things that sailors have been spewing for centuries). People are, someone said to me once, going to have the Perlmonks they want.

    I'm just slightly surprised that ptum has only now discovered that the prevailing sensibilities at Perlmonks are in favor of coarseness, unnecessary offensiveness in language, irreverence and a denial that anything is sacred to any sensible person. I've known this for a long time.

    Well, perlmonks isn't your lawn...

    But ptum's sensibilities are his, and the quality of his experience of Perlmonks is his. Perlmonks would not be worth much to anyone if no one ever interacted with it, would it? What I see a lot of (what I have, {sigh}, participated in arguments about on the chatterbox) is people saying "I care about preserving the quality of the Perlmonks experience for people who think like me but not for "everyone" (for some nuanced value of "everyone"). They are saying this implicitly, I mean, by criticizing attempts to correct thoughtlessly, pointlessly offensive comments.

        Soren A / somian / perlspinr / Intrepid

    -- 
    Words can be slippery, so consider who speaks as well as what is said; know as much as you can about the total context of the speaker's participation in a forum over time, before deciding that you fully comprehend the intention behind those words. If in doubt, ask for clarification before you 'flame'.
      Intrepid,

      ptum's words

      Whatever your meta-ethical viewpoint (or lack thereof) it seems to me that a small amount of decency and respect for others would go a long way in terms of refraining from posts like this.
      in Re^2: RFC: Acme::BottomsUp are a smart way to say "observe yourself as slapped".

      Furthermore, some points:

      • Christ is a title, yes. And a symbol.
      • Symbols may be held sacred, but aren't. There's no such thing as desecrating a symbol. What is being held sacred (and will be sacred, forever) is what the symbol points to.
      • DrHyde's christ and ptum's christ share a common symbol, but are in fact localized in their own respective package. The debate of the value of christ is pointless.
      • I deeply respect ptum and DrHyde as fellows on the way living through the same life as I live.

      --shmem

      _($_=" "x(1<<5)."?\n".q·/)Oo.  G°\        /
                                    /\_¯/(q    /
      ----------------------------  \__(m.====·.(_("always off the crowd"))."·
      ");sub _{s./.($e="'Itrs `mnsgdq Gdbj O`qkdq")=~y/"-y/#-z/;$e.e && print}

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