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Perl 6 coming out in 18 months(?)

by apotheon (Deacon)
on Feb 23, 2007 at 07:36 UTC ( #601698=perlmeditation: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

This is a prediction, not an official announcement.

Regardless of wildly inaccurate estimates, statements that it will be released "when it's done", and other potentially contradicting statements about the ultimate release date of Perl 6, I'm pretty sure I know it's coming out soon. Specifically, within the next 18 months. Vaporware no more. I mean at least a release candidate, if not a real true-to-life production release.

My method of prediction is simple: Both my Debian and FreeBSD systems report Perl 5.8.8 as their installed Perl versions. They've been that way for a while now. Perl 5.x is rapidly approaching the point where the numbers will start to look silly. The experimental developer's release is apparently 5.9.4 currently. I figure these numbers give it about 18 months to get to the point where the impending silliness must be avoided by incrementing the first digit.

Really, now, we can't have something like Perl 5.16.4 -- can we? What would the other languages think? We should have a Perl 6 in our hands in about eighteen months, come hell or high water, even if it must be accomplished by ensuring complete Parrot support for Ruby 2.0 and providing a translation layer so your Perl 6 syntax gets translated into Ruby before being turned into bytecode. Yeah, I don't foresee it happening that way either -- it's just a crazy idea.

Yep. 18 months. Who wants to bet on it?

print substr("Just another Perl hacker", 0, -2);
- apotheon
CopyWrite Chad Perrin

Comment on Perl 6 coming out in 18 months(?)
Re: Perl 6 coming out in 18 months(?)
by Anonymous Monk on Feb 23, 2007 at 08:06 UTC
    Really, now, we can't have something like Perl 5.16.4 -- can we?
    Thats the plan. Perl5 will not be renamed Perl6.

      I'd like to introduce you to someone. Anonymonk, meet Sarcasm. Sarcasm, this is Anonymonk. I don't believe you're acquainted.

      (my apologies if the humor was too subtle or obscure)

      print substr("Just another Perl hacker", 0, -2);
      - apotheon
      CopyWrite Chad Perrin

        Its noisy in here, and that's not Sarcasm nor Humor
Re: Perl 6 coming out in 18 months(?)
by ysth (Canon) on Feb 23, 2007 at 08:49 UTC
    To state it a little differently than the previous respondent, Perl 6 coming out has little to do with continuation of Perl 5 releases. I expect the 5.10 series to have a long happy life.

    And I know I'm looking forward to being the first kid on the block to be running 5.11.

      Oh? Want to race?

      (btw, I figure another seven years to get from 5.10 to 5.12 but also that we'll have Perl 6 before then. I mostly wouldn't be too terribly surprised to see 6.0 inside of two years mostly just guessing at the pace and how much I'm guessing is left to do.).

      ⠤⠤ ⠙⠊⠕⠞⠁⠇⠑⠧⠊

      Perl 6 coming out has little to do with continuation of Perl 5 releases.

      Yeah -- I've heard/read the discussion before about the fact that Perl 6 is more of a fork than a next iteration, and I'm happy with that. I like Perl 5 too much to want it to vanish entirely -- though I suspect that with time I may find myself using it less and less in favor of Perl 6.

      print substr("Just another Perl hacker", 0, -2);
      - apotheon
      CopyWrite Chad Perrin

      Perl 5.13 will be skipped tho. At least by me. I hope that 5.12, 5.13, 5.14 differ only by their version number. Yes im superstitious. But then again, since Apollo 13 so is NASA. :-)

      Or maybe we should just go from 5.11 to 5.14. Hmm.

      ---
      $world=~s/war/peace/g

Re: Perl 6 coming out in 18 months(?)
by DrHyde (Prior) on Feb 23, 2007 at 10:24 UTC
    Yeah, but which 18 months?
Re: Perl 6 coming out in 18 months(?)
by bsdz (Friar) on Feb 23, 2007 at 10:47 UTC
    My guess would be a little longer than 18 months before we have a stable release of Perl6 on Parrot. Certain design concepts are still in the making (just see the Perl6-Language mailing list!). For example, I still don't know how Perl6 will handle multi-threading?

    How nice it would be to have P6/Parrot at the same time as C++09!

    On the otherhand, Perl6/Pugs is already here albeit a little slow!

      Hmm, well, don't be too put off by what happens on the mailing lists; we all like to do our share of bikeshed painting, but a lot of that is just noise. Most of the recent design decisions have actually been simplifications to make implementation easier.

      As for threading and events, we've purposefully put that off till we understand how Perl can be properly multi-paradigmatic in that realm. The eventual model is probably going to be something like the unified approach taken in this paper. This being Perl, we will not tell people that they're using a thread continuation monad, because that would be scary. Something like "thread control objects" sounds much friendlier. Perl is all about letting people think they know what's going on until they really need to know what's going on. :-)

        Perl is all about letting people think they know what's going on until they really need to know what's going on.

        I love that. It seems (appropriately) applicable to the confusion in the community over how close Perl 6 is to being done, too.

        Frankly, I'm a fan of the "it's done when it's done" approach -- it tends to lead to better software when all is said and done, assuming you have enthusiastic people working on it, in my experience. I'm also impatient to have a stable Perl 6 to play with, though. For one thing, that's when the good tutorial documentation will start to appear, and I'd really like to start reading the stuff.

        print substr("Just another Perl hacker", 0, -2);
        - apotheon
        CopyWrite Chad Perrin

        Hmm, well, don't be too put off by what happens on the mailing lists; we all like to do our share of bikeshed painting, but a lot of that is just noise. Most of the recent design decisions have actually been simplifications to make implementation easier.

        Hehe, to quote someone you may know:

        Me too. If it's any comfort, just think of the design of Perl 6 as a genetic algorithm running on a set of distributed wetware CPUs. We'll just keep mutating our ideas till they prove themselves adaptive.

        This being Perl, we will not tell people that they're using a thread continuation monad, because that would be scary.

        To quote again (someone else):

        And continuations. But continuations are scary. Good scary, but still scary.

        Perl is all about letting people think they know what's going on until they really need to know what's going on

        ++ TimToady. After all these years you can still keep coming up with pertinent aphorisms.

        Cheers,
        Rob
        I'm assuming that was a newie :-)
Re: Perl 6 coming out in 18 months(?)
by Herkum (Parson) on Feb 23, 2007 at 16:14 UTC

    I was trying to find out what was going on with Perl6 and I was looking for list summaries for it. However, those stopped about a year ago and I did not know any other place that was displaying reports on current progress.

      That page is not being kept up-to-date (indeed, keeping handwritten html up-to-date with a distributed volunteer effort seems to be a recurrent problem), but if you look at the link right above "This week" it'll take you straight to Planet Perl Six, which is an aggregator of more recent logs and summaries. Of course, even the summaries can be a bit scary, insofar as they summarize a great deal of free-wheeling discussion that will never make it into the design. So if you really want to know where things stand on the design, stick close to the synopses and their updates. We're currently working on tools to make svn diffs easily available via the Web.
Re: Perl 6 coming out in 18 months(?)
by Withigo (Friar) on Feb 25, 2007 at 21:06 UTC
    It looks like you're not the only one forecasting a similar timeline for the arrival of "The Next Big Language": Perl 6?

      Yeah, I saw that. It's an excellent essay. I also wrote on the subject, expanding somewhat and suggesting Perl 6 as the best fit for Yegge's criteria for the Next Big Language.

      print substr("Just another Perl hacker", 0, -2);
      - apotheon
      CopyWrite Chad Perrin

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