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Help with updating a Perl Resources sticky thread at a web developer forum?

by StommePoes (Scribe)
on Mar 10, 2010 at 14:12 UTC ( #827800=perlmeditation: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

Hallo fine monks,

I hope to have some monks look over a proposed overhaul I'm working on of a Perl Resources sticky thread on a web developer forum. The old one is... old. So after fixing broken links and adding in some more modern stuff (Moose, Catalyst), I'd like some feedback on some of the tutorials and articles that still remain on the list (as I can't code much more than Hello World and maybe a for loop), whether they should be kept, canned, or replaced with a similar tut.

There is a web development forum I visit regularly (too regularly : ) It's springtime and that means updating old sticky threads, some over 10 years old.

While I'm not in the Programming Team I offered to go over the Perl Resources sticky thread in Program Your Site, as Perl's not terribly popular and I'd at least like to see some Good Resources presented to the hapless person who happens to stumble into the low-traffic "Perl, Python and other Languages" section.

Here is the current, original sticky; note perldoc doesn't work, and some other things.

Here is my attempt so far (just sitting on my site for your benefit, as stickys in the forum are made up of bbcode). I've asked once in Chatterbox and got some feedback, and I've talked to two other monks, where it was suggested that I post here.

Note that I started with the original thread text and went from there. Also, my comments are in italics and mostly are either my thoughts or comments to the Team member who will ultimately post the updated sticky. They will not be in the final sticky of course. The non-italicised text, however, if incorrect (descriptions) please tell me! Offer some better text if I've gotten it wrong. Also if I grouped something in the wrong area.

I'm most interested in how decent or sucky the tutorials and the SitePoint articles are. Many of them were written end 1990's to early 2000's. A few are book reviews (of books written in the time period). I'm definitely removing the part under Perl Scripts... I even see a link on the left to good old Matt's Script Archive : ) Also if there's some other excellent Beginner Perl book besides the Llama, let me know.

Please keep in mind that this is still generally meant for web-oriented people (hopefully people coming from PHP or .NET!) and so for this reason I haven't yet considered adding stuff like BioPerl (maybe add it anyway to the Communities section though) as SitePoint gets more webmasters than geneticists etc. I'm not sure if I want PDL in their either for similar reasons.

Thanks in advance!

Update 1: I've been updating my html version as I go. I'll add a final update here when I'm ready to submit this to Programming at the forum. I'm hoping my descriptions, labeling and grouping are also correct. As per roboticus' suggestion, I'm going to pick through some monks' home nodes. Thanks for the comments so far, but I also want to make sure what I have is done right!

Update 2:Thar she blows. Hope it turned out well. Thanks again for all the advice, monks.

Comment on Help with updating a Perl Resources sticky thread at a web developer forum?
Re: Help with updating a Perl Resources sticky thread at a web developer forum?
by jffry (Hermit) on Mar 10, 2010 at 17:21 UTC

    Under Books, you should include Perl Best Practices by Damian Conway.

      Good one. Why didn't I think of it when it's sitting on the bookshelf at home?? : ) Added.

Re: Help with updating a Perl Resources sticky thread at a web developer forum?
by roboticus (Canon) on Mar 10, 2010 at 17:47 UTC

      Hm, yes cygwin is good to add but even better are the Windows stuff you've added... I expect users of this forum to be more Windows users than *nix. Thanks!

      But I have a question about DBI... should I still have links to stuff like DBI or should I keep it to stuff like DBIx::Class instead? Assuming people going through Perl Resources are either new to Perl or haven't done much with it?

      Then again it could also very well be people who've ended up in a Perl shop, so maybe I should just add those too... they can go where I have DBIx::Class. And if I have a Databases section (sounds good), what else should be in there?

      Actually Spreadsheet::WriteExcel, Spreadsheet::ParseExcel both run perfectly fine on *nix as well, we use them all the time for $work on Linux and FreeBSD servers.

      -stvn

        stvn:

        I didn't mean to imply that they run only on Windows. (I've used it for quite some time on Linux.) I suggested them for the Windows section because Excel is a Windows application, and the primary purpose of those packages (at least around here) is to interact with a file format familiar to many Windows users.

        ...roboticus

Re: Help with updating a Perl Resources sticky thread at a web developer forum?
by StommePoes (Scribe) on Mar 12, 2010 at 10:15 UTC

    Do you guys think I should just remove entirely the dubious/unknown tutorials and just replace them with some of the suggestions from roboticus? One thing I worry about is PerlMonks... looks a little 1999. I love for people to come here but hopefully they don't think it's a reflection of Perl (these may be web designers, possibly used to shinier sites from Ruby, Python or PHP). Also, PM is quite slow loading for me, so possibly also for other people. Sometimes it's a minute or more to get a page up.

    And, can anyone give me any reasons to remove the "SitePoint Articles" stuff? Other than Attack of the Killer Bugs, which seems to still be relevant, the others either review old books or have old Perl How-to's that I can't tell if they (at this age) are giving bad advice now.

Re: Help with updating a Perl Resources sticky thread at a web developer forum?
by spx2 (Chaplain) on Mar 12, 2010 at 13:56 UTC
    Please also add the following:
    • Moose
    • Data::Visitor (this one is especially effective in combination with XML::Simple)
    • List::AllUtils, for the following very useful functions(some of which are variations of map/grep which you don't want to write over and over again):
      • reduce
      • all
      • any
      • uniq
      • first,firstidx
      • mesh/zip,pairwise,eacharray,eacharray_ref
    They're all for every-day usage.

      Thanks, I've Moose on there twice (heh)... I've been rearranging the HTML page all day today, so now I have a general "Modules" section near the top which mentions both Moose separately (it's kinda killer-app-ish) and Task::Kensho for those who are so new to Perl/CPAN they need help weeding.

      I will check out the other two, but other than Moose, I'm kinda wavering on mentioning other specific modules (I know I have XML::Twig in there but it may not stay). I'm more hoping to weed out the bad stuff on there and get good listings of the groups Frameworks (Gantry and Rose are big question marks! and only just found Web::Simple), Templating Libraries and SQL/Database stuff that web guys are going to be especially interested in. I'm not even sure if I want Perl_Object_Environment to stay in there (having trouble figuring out what it does exactly, didn't sound like something general enough.. correct me if I'm wrong!).

      Thanks, and keep them coming.

      Edit/update Partially I also wanted to kind of address some of the comments both in the thread later down "Wow thats a lot of stuff to look at. Maybe somebody could rank it as to where a newbie might start?" as well as similar questions that have been floating around the forums (people making wild claims such as that "PERL doesn't have any frameworks, use Ruby/Python/PHP"). So, also addressing that a bit.

        Thanks, I've Moose on there twice (heh)... I've been rearranging the HTML page all day today, so now I have a general "Modules" section near the top which mentions both Moose separately (it's kinda killer-app-ish) Yep, Moose is a good app. and Task::Kensho for those who are so new to Perl/CPAN they need help weeding. I will check out the other two, but other than Moose, I'm kinda wavering on mentioning other specific modules (I know I have XML::Twig in there but it may not stay). I'm more hoping to weed out the bad stuff on there and get good listings of the groups Frameworks(Gantry and Rose are big question marks! and only just found Web::Simple)

        I don't know very much about Gantry or Rose, I think they are not used very much nowadays. I think there's definitely a trend here ... right now , the following are very popular : Catalyst, Mojolicious,CGI::Application.

        About the ones you mentioned Rose hasn't been updated since 2008 and I really haven't heard anything about Gantry(although I see the last release on cpan is 2010).

        Templating Libraries and SQL/Database stuff that web guys are going to be especially interested in. I'm not even sure if I want Perl_Object_Environment to stay in there (having trouble figuring out what it does exactly, didn't sound like something general enough.. correct me if I'm wrong!).

        POE is already in Task::Kensho which you mentioned earlier.

        Thanks, and keep them coming.

        Yes I'm sure you will have many suggestion, but the main thing is to identify what each suggested module does and see if there are overlaps and weed out unnecessary ones.

        Using the Dreyfus model of skill acquisition, I moved myself from level 1 to level 3 because of three main things.

        • Perldoc site.
        • The Perl Best Practices book.
        • And this site right here: Perl Monks.

        These are the triumvirate for me. Perldoc is the ultimate language reference. PBP is the ultimate style guide for when you are overwhelmed by TMTOWTDI. And Perl Monks is for everything else.

        Note Well: I prefer to teach myself by running example code snippets and then reading specific reference material for more detail. I usually do not have the patience for tutorials with lots of exposition (for example, the Camel book and Learning Perl). If this is also your learning style, then I am hard pressed to think of anything more you would need to get a good grasp of base Perl.

Re: Help with updating a Perl Resources sticky thread at a web developer forum?
by planetscape (Canon) on Mar 12, 2010 at 16:32 UTC

    Under your Perl modules heading, I would add randyk's Browse and search CPAN. I often find its search capabilities superior, and Win32 PPM packages are listed in the module descriptions. randyk is also very responsive to requests for new PPMs (within reasonable limits).

    HTH,

    planetscape

      Ok, I've got kobe's search and through that I found the CPAN FAQ that also seems to double as a pretty damn good resource in general.

      In the thread, someone asked "where does a newbie start?" I think I've got that covered now as far as PM tuts, Small Quests for a Beginner, general FAQ and places to get modules in general.

      I'm probably going to keep this going for this week for monk input (so until Friday 19 or Sat 20 March) before submitting what I have as a sort of RFC at the forums. After that point, it's probably going to be out of my hands. Thanks again, everyone. It's starting to look like something respectable.

Re: Help with updating a Perl Resources sticky thread at a web developer forum?
by StommePoes (Scribe) on Mar 16, 2010 at 08:45 UTC

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