Re^2: Unsatisfactory state of Module::Starter stack

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Re^3: Unsatisfactory state of Module::Starter stack by rjbs (Pilgrim) on May 24, 2010 at 14:57 UTC
In the end Dist::Zilla doesn't need a copywriter because it's not trying to sell itself to anyone. Its main virtue, in my eyes, is being useful to me. If other people get mileage out of it, that's cool, too. As for the "dzil new" command, which is the "Module-Starter-like" bit, it's very young. I think it's also very good and has a lot of promise, but its main form of documentation right now is a screenshot of it getting used in my blog. The explanation for this isn't interesting to many people, and goes something like, "documenting it before the global config subsystem that will enhance it is complete would be a waste of time because of the changes to docs that it would require later." That said, if you stop by irc.perl.org #distzilla, there are almost always people there who can help you use it. I think you will find it much more flexible than Module::Starter, which was very hard to extend as time went on. Its that technical inflexibility that led me, in part, to stop using it. rjbs	[reply]
Re^3: Unsatisfactory state of Module::Starter stack by metaperl (Curate) on May 24, 2010 at 13:37 UTC
I had a very brief look at Dist::Zilla. It fails to sell itself to me (perhaps they need to hire a copywriter). That's one of my irks about Ricardo Signes. Most of his modules are DEEPLY underdocumented and it's not always clear what practical use they have. But I'm speaking as the general public. Ricardo rolls deep on irc.perl.org in #moose with all the heavy hitters. They work around the clock as a dedicated pack of hackers in a cooperative non-elitist fashion. When he puts out a module its because that pack of hackers COLLECTIVELY see it as a best of breed choice having surveyed everything out there. In particular it clearly attempts to be a much more comprehensive system than Module::Starter. If they succeed this is of course a virtue, but I am just left with an aching feeling that is bound to incompatible with me somewhere. Yes, I agree. I still use Module::Starter myself. But if you join the IRC channels and chat them up, they will be glad to discuss their aims and bring you in to submit patches, etc. And also why they started a new project instead of extending Andy's. The mantra of every experienced web application developer is the same: thou shalt separate business logic from display. Ironically, almost all template engines allow violation of this separation principle, which is the very impetus for HTML template engine development. -- Terence Parr, "Enforcing Strict Model View Separation in Template Engines"	[reply]
Re^4: Unsatisfactory state of Module::Starter stack by petdance (Parson) on May 24, 2010 at 14:09 UTC
But if you join the IRC channels and chat them up, they will be glad to discuss their aims and bring you in to submit patches, etc. And also why they started a new project instead of extending Andy's. Not sure what your meaning is here. Are you saying I'm not open to patches and ideas? xoxo, Andy	[reply]
Re^5: Unsatisfactory state of Module::Starter stack by metaperl (Curate) on May 24, 2010 at 17:57 UTC
Are you saying I'm not open to patches and ideas? Not at all. That statement was neither express nor implied :) You've certainly been open to patches from me. I was more referring to the whys and wherefores of Dist::Zilla. And since there was some doubt about whether such a large ambitious project could/should be finished, they would be happy to explain that and also bring him on board to submit patches. The mantra of every experienced web application developer is the same: thou shalt separate business logic from display. Ironically, almost all template engines allow violation of this separation principle, which is the very impetus for HTML template engine development. -- Terence Parr, "Enforcing Strict Model View Separation in Template Engines"	[reply]
Re^4: Unsatisfactory state of Module::Starter stack by SilasTheMonk (Chaplain) on May 25, 2010 at 15:00 UTC
That's one of my irks about Ricardo Signes. Most of his modules are DEEPLY underdocumented and it's not always clear what practical use they have. What do you mean "under documented"? The documentation is in the code and I was reading it just now -- albeit with "-d" flag. Mind you Module::Starter::Plugin::TT2 has some worrying meta data fields like author and so on that have "%" in them.	[reply]
Re^5: Unsatisfactory state of Module::Starter stack by metaperl (Curate) on May 25, 2010 at 18:24 UTC
That's one of my irks about Ricardo Signes. Most of his modules are DEEPLY underdocumented and it's not always clear what practical use they have. What do you mean "under documented"? I should not have said "most of his modules are underdocumented." I should have said: "each time I have considered using his modules, I found them underdocumented." To be specific, each of these modules, I found sorely lacking in docs: App::Cmd Data::OptList But that comprises a mere fraction of his CPAN output if you look in his author directory so I stand with my foot in my `$orifice` looking sheepish. The mantra of every experienced web application developer is the same: thou shalt separate business logic from display. Ironically, almost all template engines allow violation of this separation principle, which is the very impetus for HTML template engine development. -- Terence Parr, "Enforcing Strict Model View Separation in Template Engines"	[reply] [d/l]


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