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Re^2: Pulling Punches

by simonodell (Acolyte)
on Jul 12, 2011 at 12:23 UTC ( #913900=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re: Pulling Fingers
in thread Pulling Punches

>Youíve described a system that canít be stream parsed,

Yes it can, your just not smart enough to figure out how! having said that, stream parsing is a lame way of dealing with it.

>canít be readily consumed by available tools,

Sure it can, but there is no need for that.

>has an inflexible file-only input system,

LOL.. you can store the data anyway you want, I was specifying a ruleset, not a framework!

>will require running eval on raw Perl,

You might think that, but you would be wrong... Again! I'm guessing you haven't read Higher Order Perl by Mark Jason Dominus then?

>seems to have arbitrary grammar

Oh so arbitary, horror of horrors it adds just 2 extra characters to the existing standard. PHP has <?, TT has [% how arbitary is that?

>coupled with a highly limited priority system

ROFL!!! Highly limited is a description of your imagination, not the system I proposed.

>which will always be expensive to parse,

Are you rabid about parsing or something? Parsing is always expensive no matter what, and besides its very old fashioned, insert COBOL joke here.

>and brings nothing new to the game

That's what you think, my dear little living the past perl monk.

>that couldnít easily be done in TT or Mason or the Alloy family orÖ

It cannot be done in those or any other package I have found hence the reason I don't just use those packages... DUH!!!

>And they all have documents, community, examples, tests, profiling,

All of which takes time and effort I really can't be bothered to make. I have better things to do than to spoon feed you.

>and a really noticeable lack of ego about how effing Earth >shattering their approach to solving this well-trod problem >space is.

Cause and effect, showing humility here and lack of ego gets one response, going at it like a bull in a china shop gets an altogether more interesting (and useful) response.

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Re^3: Pulling Punches
by Tux (Abbot) on Jul 12, 2011 at 12:40 UTC
    > And they all have documents, community, examples, tests, profiling,

    All of which takes time and effort I really can't be bothered to make. I have better things to do than to spoon feed you.

    This has nothing to do with spoonfeeding. Documentation (and exambles) offer a way to make the (end-)user understand what the module has to offer. If an example is clear and understandable, the possible (new) end-user can take a (quick) decision on the usefulness of the module and if it is going to help solving his/her problem.

    The better your examples are, the less errors the user will make, and the less bug reports you get.

    From your tone, also in other posts, I however think that you are not interested in bug reports, as your code - d'uh! of course - is without errors and self-explaining. So it doesn't need examples or documentation, as it will solve the problem on it's own. By pure magic. This is what the world was really waiting for.

    > and a really noticeable lack of ego about how effing Earth shattering their approach to solving this well-trod problem space is.

    Cause and effect, showing humility here and lack of ego gets one response, going at it like a bull in a china shop gets an altogether more interesting (and useful) response.

    That attitude might be what is causing your feelings here. The average monk here thinks that he/she can learn even from the most stupid post or question. By giving an explaining answer, it quite often happens that the poster gets a moment of WOW! which is most likely one of the reasons they post here.

    I came here years ago after taking ownership of an abandoned module, just to seek opinions of what other people thought that had to be improved or fixed. Meanwhile I learned that there is much more here that is worth learning about, even if I thought that I already knew all about that.

    Questions here make me sometimes re-read my own documentation to see where I was unclear. Sometimes that causes the docs to improve, sometimes I just have to tell the other person to re-read that part of the docs. Eventually examples and docs together make perfect sense.

    Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
      "I came here years ago"

      So did I, infact I think I first started trying to explain what I was upto way back in 2007. Since then I have made huge advancements in the efficiency of my own private implementation of the system, and in all that time I have yet to find any problem which has no elegant solution using the simple rules.

      I don't know how many times I have to say it before it sinks in, but I will try once again;

      I'm not trying to plug a framework, or a proprietary language, or a module. I am talking about another level of abstraction above the code which is unprecedented in all of existing modules and systems I have looked into. Having worked for years on it, and having deployed many sites using it, I absolutely REFUSE to use anything less.

      I'm sharing a quantum leap forwards and I get attitude from dimwitted backwards looking low brow coders who don't get it and would rather bitch and moan about my attitude.


        Even if you are the one in the right (who am I to doubt that, as I don't use anything close to what you are talking about, so why should I care), sharing a thought is something quite different than sharing code/examples, so others can judge on actual "stuff". When you are talking about a level of abstraction, it is quite possible this stays very abstract to a lot of the readers. If I would say that I found a way to reverse magnetism in a confined space, you wouldn't believe me until you saw what or how I did it. I cannot convince you of the opposite by just saying I did and how great I am and that you just have to believe me because I am the best. Well, I am not the best, and I do share my code (unless forbidden by law). I hope people come up with comments: both positive and negative. I take gratitude in the positive comments and learn from the negative. That is how others do perceive my implementation(s). Maybe I'm right, sometimes I am wrong, but when I am right, I am now forced to find a eloquative answer that will explain why my thought is right. I don't say "you are wrong. period." that doesn't help either of us.

        I'm sure you made something great, otherwise you wouldn't talk about it here that much. But as long as the readers don't have anything to look at, there reactions are expectable.

        Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn

        This reminds me of all those free energy folks.

        Lots of grandiose claims, the "I'm right, the rest of the world is wrong" attitude, little explanation, no evidence, and certainly no looking at the internals is allowed!

Re^3: Pulling Punches
by Anonymous Monk on Jul 12, 2011 at 12:43 UTC

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choroba should make his presentation scaffolding public
[Corion]: choroba: spod5 converts pod to S5 HTML, so it's also still basic. I find the lack of animations (in the sense of "highlight this", "highlight that" in code) somewhat tedious as I do it with rendered PNGs
[Corion]: I haven't found a good way to include/use the source SVGs I use for creating the PNGs directly as animations
[ambrus]: Presentations come in many different shapes, and so slides do as well.
[Corion]: Doing that in Powerpoint or Ooxml would be nice(r) but I'm much quicker doing the outline of a presentation and the code as Pod
[Corion]: Hurrr - on a machine that is behaving weirdly, I have two processes CROND running. I guess that is the source of unattended jobs sometimes not finding their files anymore...
[ambrus]: Most of the time if I make slides, they're just a formatted document with a medium level of formality (between a well written article and an informal draft), with usually the page breaks chosen carefully and possibly some content repeated between pages.
[Corion]: ambrus: My slides are mostly a list of things I want to talk about. But sometimes I want to point out interesting parts, or build up a larger image from small components. This is where animations/ highlights would come in well
[choroba]: what I like about slides in HTML + CSS is I can use templates to produce them, which means all code in slides is tested, and I can version them in git
[ambrus]: Btw, a request to everyone who organizes international conferences where presenters will show slides.

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