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Re^3: Bad Religion!

by dreadpiratepeter (Priest)
on Jul 26, 2011 at 17:19 UTC ( #916805=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^2: Bad Religion!
in thread Bad Religion!

I think you are confused. We don't have a problem with new ideas, we have a problem with your idea. Dozens of monks have given their honest criticism of your idea and it's shortcomings, with constructive, helpful suggestions on how to improve it and solve you problems. But you have blinders on and think that your idea is the greatest idea ever and is perfect. You dismiss everyone who hasn't broken down crying at the beauty of your idea as elitist and closed-minded. Hell, it's not even an original idea. You can keep saying it isn't, but it's pretty much a templating system

Put up or shut up. Stop your whining and make the effort to package your code and put it on CPAN. If it is as good as you say it is, people will use it. TemplateToolkit, Moose, Catalyst, etc all started that way. They grew because the solved a real need in a good way. In practice, not just in their creator's minds.

Feel free to respond with another pointless, rambling, paranoid diatribe, or maybe degenerate into ad hominum attacks and profanity. Based on your history that is you most likely response.

"Worry is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere."

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Re^4: Bad Religion!
by Logicus on Jul 26, 2011 at 17:37 UTC

    Just compare my sentiments with this :


    Or this, oh look... written by none other than my good friend Anonymous Monk himself...

    Perl is dying

    When I tell other people in the I.T industry that I'm into Perl the typical response goes something like "Does Perl even still exist?", the massive weight of the I.T industry already believe Perl to be a thing of the past, wake up and smell the coffee.

    Perl is being choked and suffocated under the weight of your snobby elitism, your turning off young and inventive talent by completely ignoring the central tenets of TIMTOWTDI and Keep it simple, and insisting that beginners like me instantly code like masters before you will give our new ideas the time of day.

    There is a battle going on to engage the new generation of programmers, and you lot are losing said battle, big time by your adherence to verbose complicated solutions to simple problems and your snobby condescending attitude towards new comers with big ideas but not much experience.

    In short, it will not be Perl that kills Perl, it will be you lot that kills Perl, and your already well on your way to achieving that goal and completely obsoleting yourselves along the way.

      Well, that's a great point. And since your up and coming aXML is its own language, you could implement it using a different tool besides Perl. Why not? Perl is dead, right? Why would you hang your star on a corpse's wagon when PHP is so obviously superior to so many people that it has risen to become the front runner.

      Surely PHP has all the tools available you would need. You can't be so reliant on Perl modules that you couldn't find a PHP alternative, right?

      Just imagine the benefits reimplementing it in PHP. You would obtain underlying language independence. Then and only then will it become clear that all these posts about aXML are essentially irrelevant to PerlMonks. The Monastery doesn't have anyone here evangelizing for Ruby, after all. And why not? It's a system that has a lot of nice features. Surely every Perl user would derive benefit from such a wonderful system as Ruby. Surely indeed. If aXML is ever to be taken seriously you will have to divorce it from its implementation constraint. Divorce it from a single basis language both in implementation, and in mindset. It's not a Perl tool. It's not a tool that should be pushed upon any particular "other programming language" group. It's a tool that should stand or fall on its own merits without any preconceived stigmas or validations derived from the language upon which it is implemented.

      Once you've realized that aXML transcends its implementation you will be able to start your own user groups in support of it. Let people be free to innovate both with aXML itself, as well as in implementing it however they see fit. Perl6 is a specification, and any implementation that passes the tests is Perl6. XML is a specification too, and any XML that validates is XML.

      I happen to see a healthy future for Perl. But you don't. You see decline. So jump ship. Set sail on the most beautiful and seaworthy vessel you can find. If that's PHP, great. Whatever you feel will be the best implementation for aXML is where you should be.

      I saw you mention that you would like to use aXML to implement a social site. Go for it. Who is stopping you? Who cares if it isn't fast enough yet. Let that become a problem related to your success. ...a luxury problem, as some like to say. Why not move forward, and work on speed improvements when your site has enough users to warrant it. Even then, as you mention, processing power is cheap; just throw more at it. A successful site will generate revenue adequate to keep its technological needs afloat, right?

      I really don't see technical challenges as the primary obstacle for a social site that you create and maintain a presence in. You've got at your fingertips a system that in a matter of hours would enable you to whip up something pretty impressive and compelling. Your challenge will be content and personalities.

        How many times, it's neither a language or a framework, nor is it a templating system.

        You are fixated with the idea of building an inflexible interpreted language on top of Perl because it's the only way your narrow little mind can think of handling the problem.

        And as for why I choose to extend Perl this way rather than PHP, is simple... in a word... CPAN, perl's primary asset.

      TIOBE 2011

      Oh look, Perl is at number 9, down again from last year, I wonder why that could be...

      Infact, it now has less than 1/3 of the size of PHP, son-of-perl a system which started off life as a lowly Perl module! (And was probably much vaunted and disregarded by the Perl-snob-brigade.


      When 5.12 hits we have a chance of winning programmers back, but the language has so much baggage -- both technical and social -- that I don't think it will win anyone back.

      End Quote

      If it wasn't for the massive advantage of CPAN module availability, I would already of started writing aXML as a PHP system. Your not going to win anyone back to Perl with your we-know-everything-you-do-as-we-say attitudes my pedigree chums.

        I would already of started writing aXML as a PHP system

        And what a terrible, terrible blow that would be to the Perl-community.

        It would loose not only a brilliant development community but also a vibrant user-community (combined strength: 1)

        That would surely tilt the balance in phps favor for good.

        Eventually your coding skills will surely match your ego but I am skeptical if your lifetime will be long enough for that to happen.

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