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Re^5: Moose - my new religion

by Anonymous Monk
on Nov 25, 2011 at 10:31 UTC ( #940024=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^4: Moose - my new religion
in thread Moose - my new religion

No one has decades to wait for a programming language. Which no one has clue what it can do, Nothing related to Perl 6 at this time is even remotely close to ready. We are talking of smoke stuff. Building palaces in thin air, and then saying "ooh, look at this when this actually completes. It will make Buckingham palace look like a hut".

If you can't provide a compelling replacement in time, some one else will. And no matter how beautiful your claim your tool to be, its still non existent. Or at least not usable. Perl 5 is usable and does the job *now*. And there are millions using Perl 5, are you saying they are fools for not chasing a day dream? Nopes, they just realize a little performance sacrifice is a lot better than waiting for something that isn't seeming to be ready even after more than a decade.

Projects that generally take this long. Never reach their goal. They die a slow death.

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Re^6: Moose - my new religion
by Logicus on Nov 25, 2011 at 17:26 UTC

    There are already a couple of working compilers for Perl6, granted they are not fully feature complete yet, but then Perl6 is being written for free by dozens if not hundreds of volunteers. It doesn't have a multi-billion dollar enterprise backing it up and paying top dollar for programmer talent and time.

    Your comments sound so ungrateful they verge on ridiculous.

    Also you make absolutist claims like "no one has a clue what it can do"... speak for yourself why don't you? There are plenty of people who do have plenty of clue as to what Perl6 is about and why Perl5 can never efficiently emulate Perl6, no matter how clever the people trying to make it do so are.

    No one is suggesting you wait for Perl6, Perl5 is right there ready for you to use right now, and when 6 is ready it will be included in whatever distros are out at that point. The Perl6 team are certainly not fools for giving their time engineering it. Eventually naysayers to Perl6 like you will look as foolish as the naysayers to my system have already been proven to be.

    This is not conjecture, this is solid fact. Perl5 has been a sturdy servant and will be for some time yet, but at the end of the day it's time is fast running out and it will have to go to make room for the new paradigm of Perl6.

      There are already a couple of working compilers for ‘Perl 6’...

      There are several incomplete implementations in development.

      ‘Perl 6’ is being written for free

      Ian Hague donated $200,000 to the Perl Foundation three and a half years ago. $100k went to funding Perl 6 development and $100k was nominally seed funding to attract other donations. Besides that, has funded some Perl 6 development.

      ... by dozens if not hundreds of volunteers.

      You can probably count core contributors on both hands with fingers left over. Both Rakudo and Niezca have a bus number of about two.

      No one is suggesting you wait for ‘Perl 6’...

      I think a reasonable person might object to the categorization of any Perl 6 implementation being "usable" right now for anything more than a toy project. Almost 16 months after the first Rakudo Star release, I don't find Rakudo usable, and I have commit access to the full stack of the project, so if there's an early adopter archetype, I likely fit.

      Improve your skills with Modern Perl: the free book.

        I need a working Perl6 DBI and web framework before I can really switch over. Most of what I do with Perl5 isn't calculating Fibbonaci sequences or making fancy class hierarchies; I read files, process data from one format into another format, insert it into and read it back out of a database, display it on the web and so on.

        The ability to do all of those things in more concise, elegant ways is what makes Perl6 attractive - but first things first, we need the basics. CPAN6. lib-www-perl6, DBI6, Plack6, etc.

        I know Mr. Tim Bunce is working on a JDBC port to Perl6 (great idea) and that's a great start. I know that there has been a lot of discussion about CPAN6 (authorities, etc). Maybe it's time to do some googling on the subject.

        I'm not involved enough to have an opinion about when/if Perl 6 will be ready for everyday use. But my impression from looking at some examples is that it's practically a different language. The jump from 4 to 5 included some major changes, but the language still looked pretty much the same, as I recall. Perl 6 code that I've seen doesn't look that much like Perl 5 code, except for retaining the sigils (to be fair, that may be because the examples tend to focus on things Perl 5 doesn't have). So I get the feeling that using it will mean learning a new language, to a large extent, rather than simply adding some new features to the one I already know.

        There's nothing wrong with that -- the designers should do what they want, and !omelette unless $eggs->scrambled() and all that. But I don't know if I'll be any more likely to switch to Perl 6 than to switch to Ruby (to mention another language I don't know which is said to combine a lot of Perlish features with Smalltalk/Lisp ideas). I may very well switch to Perl 6 eventually and decide it's the best thing since sliced bread, but it certainly won't be an automatic thing.

        Aaron B.
        My Woefully Neglected Blog, where I occasionally mention Perl.

        How is it possible that, start up's run by college kids with funding around quarter of $200,000 build stuff and a business around them. So that not only do they build the product completely but also get money for further work.

        From what I make of this, either we are not managing money and people/resources well. Or just that we are too much into this socialism thing?

        I still believe we can pull this thing off, Its possible. There will be contributors. And people will contribute provided we build something that works well for most common definition of production use. There would not have been Perl 5 or its contributors if Larry hadn't done the base work.

        In order for people to buy that Perl 6 has future. They first need to be shown that there is something workable now as per most commonly accepted definitions of Production ready.

        There are several incomplete implementations in development.

        I mentioned they were feature incomplete, but as far as I know they do compile and run. I could be wrong, I have only begun to scratch the surface of Perl6 with the aim of having aXML ready for it when it comes out... it appears I have quite some time :)

        Ian Hague donated $200,000

        I wasn't aware of that fact.

        You can probably count core contributors on both hands with fingers left over.

        I was basing that estimate on the experience of having visited the Perl6 irc channel where I found dozens of connected usernames and presumed them to be the subset of people who happened to be online at the same time as me. It looked very much like the Perl6 community is active and sizeable.

        I think a reasonable...

        Oh I heartily agree, as far as I can tell it's not yet complete and the performance is currently terrible. Having said that, it's still a long way from true to say that Perl6 is a pipedream that will never materialise!

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