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Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?

by vroom (Pope)
on Apr 27, 2000 at 23:00 UTC ( #9448=poll: print w/ replies, xml ) Need Help??

vote on Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?

Yes
[bar] 69/50%
No
[bar] 45/33%
Who cares
[bar] 24/17%
138 total votes
Comment on Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by infoninja (Friar) on Apr 27, 2000 at 23:28 UTC
    Not to disparage Schwartz, Christiansen, etc., but how would one decide who (outside of lwall) classifies as a Perl Guru ?
      All three of these guys are saints in my book. I think all three have earned it. For the reasons bellow:

      1.) I own perl books from all three guys. They taught me perl! I would have missed the whole thing without them.
      2.) There is no question about there ability in perl.
      3.) Its cool to rub virtual elbows with Randal.
      4.) They are developing the language we are using.

        I'm not disagreeing with considering Schwartz and Christiansen as Perl Gurus, just curious how the decision would be made if a person classifies as a Perl Guru...
      Sure... why not? Who else is more likely to have the right answers to our questions?
      (Besides, R.Schwartz already has mega XP as a Perl Monk)
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by buzzcutbuddha (Chaplain) on Apr 28, 2000 at 00:38 UTC
    I would say that if O'Reilly trusts them to write books for them
    them on the subject, then we can consider them gurus. Plus, if they
    actually had a hand in shaping the language, they are a guru.

    Plus, Larry Wall just plain acts and talks like a guru! :)
      Absolutely! They've contributed so much, I'm only sorry its XP and not X$.
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by The Alien (Sexton) on Apr 28, 2000 at 02:38 UTC
    I have two points on this: First, XP should certainly be awarded for writing a useful tutorial. For example, Programming Perl. Second, given what I have seen so far as moderation goes on Slashdot, these people if they contributed here will probably be positively awarded to such a degree their xp will rise quickly anyway
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by lhoward (Vicar) on Apr 28, 2000 at 03:00 UTC
    One thing you could do would be to automatically give XP based on name/e-mail address appearing in the core perl distribution source-code and also points for each CPAN module they have authored. Here's some quick code I cobbled together to give a list of e-mail addresses and # of perl modules contributed to CPAN....
    #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; use LWP::Simple; my $authors = get("http://www.cpan.org/authors/00whois.html"); my %aem; my %aec; while($authors=~/A NAME=\"([A-Z]+)\"\>.+?\&lt\;([^\&]*)\&gt\;/gcs){ $aem{$1}=$2; $aec{$1}=0; } my $modules = get("http://www.cpan.org/modules/01modules.index.html"); while($modules=~/A HREF=\"[^\"]+authors[^\"]+\"\>([A-Z]+)\<\/A\>\s+\<A + HREF=\"[^\"]+\"\>([^\<]+)/gcs){ $aec{$1}++; } my $k; foreach $k (sort keys %aem){ if($aec{$k}>0){ printf "%4d %s\n",$aec{$k},$aem{$k}; } }
      I concur.

      Perhaps Y XP for every useful package/module?

      Especially Net::Syslog and Number::Spell. :)

RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by cei (Monk) on Apr 28, 2000 at 05:27 UTC
    Sure, if they don't receive the highest level of monk status, honarary or otherwise, from their individual or collective published works, then there's something wrong with the system of recongition.
      Well, I accidentally added this comment with no text. Sorry!

      I just wanted to add something on my previous post. I would like to see what Merlyn has to say on this issue.
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by BBQ (Deacon) on Apr 28, 2000 at 08:09 UTC
    I might be a wee too picky, but, I don't think the poll question was asked/answered correctly. IMHO, NOBODY should get mega XPs for who they are. They should, yes get MEGA XPs, for what they've done... Then again, you are what you do? Or you do what you are?

    I dunno, I just felt it was worth pointing this out.

    #!/home/bbq/bin/perl
    # Trust no1!
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by providencia (Pilgrim) on Apr 28, 2000 at 18:44 UTC
    I said no to the poll because. I don't think they should get
    mega-XP just for who they are. I agree with someone else that said
    that they should get it based on what they have done.
    With a limit because they (as far as I know) aren't perlmonks
    If they actually became perlmonks(joined) then I would say
    *CLAPCLAP* "BRING FORTH THE GOLDEN APPLES AND AMBROSIA!!"
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by rmgiroux (Initiate) on Apr 28, 2000 at 18:48 UTC
    It depends on which one(s) of the three you're talking about, and what XPs get you.
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 29, 2000 at 04:23 UTC
    what is XP ?
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by webfiend (Vicar) on Apr 30, 2000 at 12:10 UTC

    I'd say start them out with everyone else. They'd attain Sainthood (or beyond) quickly enough on their own merits, if they felt like it.

    "All you need is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." -- Mark Twain
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by mikfire (Deacon) on May 01, 2000 at 22:31 UTC
    Everybody has to earn enlightenment. While I respect their talents greatly and know my own meager abilities pale to insignificance next to theirs, I claim they have to earn XP like the rest of us. I am also quite certain any one of the recognized experts will quickly earn their sainthood should they come to play.

    I just dislike the idea of so idolizing anybody that anything they say is immediately taken as gospel truth.

    Mik
    Mik Firestone ( perlus bigotus maximus )

RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by Jonathan (Curate) on May 02, 2000 at 13:50 UTC
    Sainthood should only be granted the great teachers of the perl monks temple itself
I think not..
by da w00t (Sexton) on May 03, 2000 at 17:24 UTC
    They should get normal XP like everyone else -- because since they are so good, they will get moderated up anyway. da w00t
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by rude_dog007 (Initiate) on May 04, 2000 at 01:14 UTC
    Should Wall, Schwartz, & Christiansen elect to enter the Monastery and be contributors/mentors etc, then they would attain Sainthood or beyond very quickly. However, maybe exempting them from the time constraints and negative point restrictions would be better for them. They are busy, with many irons in the fire, and offering up 'spare' time may not be a luxury they can afford. So, by removing these constraints may help them contribute! I'd rather have 1000 milliseconds of Larry Wall's time than none!!! Cheers! Rude Dog
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by jkellington (Acolyte) on May 07, 2000 at 10:00 UTC
    I know its been beaten to death already, but if we're monks, shouldn't these guys be classified as gods of this crazy little religion?
RE: Should Perl Gurus (Wall,Schwartz,Christiansen et al) receive mega XP based on who they are?
by stephen (Priest) on May 08, 2000 at 21:13 UTC
    Nothing against the Perl Gurus, but I thought the idea of XP was to encourage activity on this site. XP is a measure of how responsive and knowledgable you've been on this site, not in the Perl community in general.

    XP are reasonably fair so long as they're based on what you do here. Otherwise it's a popularity contest, like elementary-school student body presidential campaigns.

    I'd find it pretty demoralizing to start handing out honorary XP, because it would make it meaningless. If you wanted to create another statistic, perhaps something D&Doid like "Fame" or "Virtue", and list that in the Saints List, it might work. Gurusamy Sarathi should have mega-fame, but (as far as I know) he doesn't post here too much.

    stephen

How about
by Nitsuj (Hermit) on Aug 02, 2000 at 00:32 UTC
    An idea, would be to give experience based on certain things. One such thing would be to have a book published by O'Reilly creditting you. You could get like, 1/2pt per page. Another would be to have a perl distribution with your work in it. Getting points based on what you contributed (but by module, not by kblock, as we all know that that is an ineffective metric).

    All in all, however, I think that participation in the SITE must be MANDATORY to have high experience. It would not be fair to give Larry Wall credit for being very devoted to a site that he never visits (not that I am saying that he never visits here, what I am saying, is that if he weren't to, he wouldn't deserve to be creditted with contributing majorly to this site, no matter what debt of gratitude we owe him for coming up with the language.)

    Everything said, give credit where credit is due, but don't just make people saints because they are saints emeritus. Perhaps a Saint Emeritus status would be in order. Universities give degrees to emeriti who have not completed programs because they feel that they have contributed significantly to a field of study. Perhaps a Saint Emeritus status is in order. Emeritus does not mean that one actually participated in the afformentioned program though, and is not the same as regular sainthood, but conveys a level of respect for the individual, perhaps even greater than have actually earning it through regular channels.

    Just Another Perl Hacker

      The trouble with this is that in many cases, people who are very important to Perl and who have great knowledge to share have been too busy working on Perl to write a book.

      I'm thinking here in particular of Chip Salzenberg who I've noticed round here posting a number of very useful nodes. His knowledge of how Perl will actually run a particular piece of code is probably better than Randal's. Should we give him mega-XP?

      Another great example is Mark-Jason Dominus. A great "explainer of Perl" both in training courses and in articles (if you don't know the name, see http://www.plover.com/~mjd/perl/ for proof). He's been too busy for the last couple of years to write a book, but he'd be a great asset to perlmonks. Would we give him mega-XP?

      --
      <http://www.dave.org.uk>

      European Perl Conference - Sept 22/24 2000, ICA, London
      <http://www.yapc.org/Europe/>
        While I agree that ability is important, contribution to the site is what, in my opinion, should determine XP on this site. Just like on everything. Webster might have a great thesaurus and dictionary, but he didn't write much on everything. Perhaps the reputation of one's posts should become more important. This way, people who write really good nodes will rise to the top, whereas people who just write a lot of nodes will not rise so quickly. If necessary, the amount of experience to achieve certain levels would be modified accordingly.

        Also, the sections. I like to comment on a poll, but my comments on a poll aren't as important as a code contribution is. Perhaps WHERE you post should also make a difference.

        Just a few more thoughts :-)

        Just Another Perl Hacker

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