$a = "xyz";
  $b = \$a;
  $c = \$b;
  $d = $c;
  while (ref $d eq "SCALAR" or ref $d eq "REF") { $d = $$d; }
  $, = " & ";
  $e = \$d;
  print ($a, $b, $c, $d, $dd, $e);