Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
Perl Monk, Perl Meditation

Re: Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation

by Moonie (Friar)
on Aug 19, 2001 at 21:55 UTC ( #106046=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation

the way to get more women into computing is to become fitter and more social.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read here. You think women base their acceptence of a job due to how "fit" and "outgoing" their co-workers are? You've got to be kidding! Are women so shallow as to judge their work environment on the base of their co-workers looks and personalities? NO! I don't think this occurs with either sex. Sure, there are exceptions - but you seem to be speaking in general terms - so this reply is reacting to that frame of mind. It's great to be in shape, but do it for yourself - not for some other edification. What if a woman programmer likes the sterotyped "programmer guru?" Hmmm? I know I did not start programming or being interested in computers due to the "fitness" of my fellow students nor how "social" they were. It was based on how much I enjoyed the work, the environment (I should say - management style that many IT/Tech departments have...), and my co-workers - fat or thin, quiet or outgoing - they are all respected based on their merits, not physical and social standards (which are subjective). They know/knew their job well and did it well. That's what counts, right? I think so.

Granted, your post may have meant well mugwumpjism - I just didn't particularly appreciate a bit of the aspects of it.

Update: I agree tadman - although I haven't run into that quite yet. Again.. historically this whole mediation may be very accurate. My experiences have been different - it's possible I've run into exceptions.
  • Comment on Re: Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re^2: Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation
by tadman (Prior) on Aug 20, 2001 at 03:38 UTC
    I'm at a loss as to why this is "ridiculous". If anyone, male or female, is entering a profession which is dominated by a certain demographic, and is not welcomed, they are less likely to continue to pursue that as a result. This pressure is sometimes deliberate, but often subconcious and not especially mean-spirited. If you don't make the effort to "fit in", whatever that entails, then the status-quo is not going to change to include you.

    You must admit, the attraction of working at a company, or in an industry, where you are constantly agitated by your peers, would have less of an attraction than an alternative which would accept you more readily.

    Consider how difficult it was for women to enter any traditionally male-dominated profession, such as medicine, law, or politics. Times are changing, but 100 years ago, there would have been very serious backlash. It was deliberate, to preserve the status-quo.

    Whatever the circumstances today, I'm not especially concerned about the gender balance in technology today. If people do their part, such as keeping the environment more professional and less like a "boys locker room", then we all benefit. The pseudo-impersonal nature of the Internet may actually be a factor, since gender is less "visible" as well as being less of an issue.
Re: Re: Women Programmers, Sex, Tai Chi and Reincarnation
by mugwumpjism (Hermit) on Aug 19, 2001 at 22:45 UTC

    I'm not talking about a grown woman entering a job. I'm talking about a young woman being turned off comp sci labs by imbalanced geeks drooling over her. These bad experiences alter the way that you think about going further with a career prospect both conciously and subconciously. And don't say that it shouldn't happen, whilst you'd be right the reality of the situation is it does happen.

      It may happen and I'm sure it does happen. I'm sure it happens to men as well when entering a workforce that is historically held by women. But, I didn't find that in college. I found a comradiry (sp?) - I found people who enjoyed coding who had fun. Guys drool, Girls drool - if there is someone attractive. But, I don't think that we base our career choices on that. I've had bad experiences in life in all walks - it doesn't mean I'll base everything off of them. But, to each their own. I'll grant that you do make a point. Being a young gal - I did have fun coding and still do.
      I agree with your point but I think you are addressing the wrong audience here.

      Yes - young male programmers and computer labs can be pretty sleazy sex-starved places. It's called adolesence. Yes it turns off women, yes young geeks can be pretty bad examples. Is it a problem for the monks here? I don't think so.

      Your advice is sound but you're addressing one possible reason out of many why there's a gender imbalance. IMO you're putting an inappropriate focus on this issue but I don't have a solution for improving the ratio either.

      My advice would be - encourage where you can but don't over do it. The balance will improve over time, but I don't see any quick band aid fixes.

      "The future will be better tomorrow." ... from the collected wisdom of George W Bush.

Log In?

What's my password?
Create A New User
Node Status?
node history
Node Type: note [id://106046]
and the web crawler heard nothing...

How do I use this? | Other CB clients
Other Users?
Others romping around the Monastery: (7)
As of 2019-05-23 18:22 GMT
Find Nodes?
    Voting Booth?
    Do you enjoy 3D movies?

    Results (146 votes). Check out past polls.

    • (Sep 10, 2018 at 22:53 UTC) Welcome new users!