Re^8: A "Perl-7" that I could actually USE right now

[Anonymous Monk]

Perl-6 IS struggling you fool! It is over 13 years old and still not even the design is finished. It doesn't matter who works his butts off trying to make it happen when Perl-6 has been a struggling and dying project for years and years and years. All of your chattering about how great things are right now and all of your relentless badgering people about conversations on IRC or articles are wasting time. There is no point to writing an article about how to do something in Perl-6 right now when that thing will change several times before anyone can even use Perl-6.

How many years of advent articles no longer work because they only ran on Pugs or Necza or Parrot and those are now broken? How many no longer run because the design of Perl-6 changed? How many no longer run because they use some library that no longer runs?

Be honest and tell people that half of the things you are blabbering about will be obsolete and useless within a year and that Perl-6 still won't be ready for them to use in that same time period!

Do you even lift, bro?

[raiph]

Be honest and tell people that half of the things you are blabbering about will be obsolete and useless within a year

The vision for the monastery is that we try to help each other. Dishonesty doesn't remotely fit. (Fwiw, imo being unkind isn't a whole lot better.)

Ignoring areas such as concurrency and NFG, and bug fixing and implementing features previously unimplemented, I see increasing stability. Perhaps you could name a P6 topic I've talked about that you think has been affected by instability?

Do you trust Larry Wall (or jnthn, or anyone involved in P6) to be honest? Anyone can join freenode's #perl6 IRC channel to engage in a one-on-one dialog with Larry Wall (nick TimToady).

[Anonymous Monk]

Deny, deflect, defer. Sorry ralph, your kool-aid mustache is showing. Maybe this is the year Perl-6 decides if for loops are really eager or lazy. Maybe this is the year someone finishes the module synopsis. Maybe this is the year Patrick finishes the list redesign. Maybe this is the year Larry finally chooses names for synchronization primitives. Maybe this is the year you admin Necza has finally shuffled off into Pugs-like irrelevance.

Deny, deflect, defer.

It's not unkind to point out untruths, ralph. Surely even you know that.

[raiph]

»»» This post is about the immature Perl 6, not the rock solid Perl 5 «««

Thank you for raising issues others might find interesting.

• if for loops are really eager or lazy.

  By design they default to eager in sink (void) context because there's no point in having a lazy for loop in sink context. In all other contexts they default to the appropriate setting, Mostly Lazy. You can explicitly force eager or lazy context by using the eager or lazy keyword. It's been this way for years and remains how things are.

  After experience with coders using P6, Larry this year made a change to "support the expectations of imperative programmers". It doesn't change the basic logic described above. Afaik, all who've spoken up on #perl6 support this change.

• someone finishes the module synopsis.

  Synopsis 11 (Units and Modules) had been under specified and largely unimplemented for years but that changed this year, especially in the last 6 months, as suggested by Perl 6 Advent Day 11 – Installing Modules. If FROGGS' English skills are too weak for you, please wait for him (or lizmat or lue or whoever) to commit a new S11, anticipated in the next month or two, that will hopefully make clear the tremendous advancement in this area this year.

• Patrick finishes the list redesign.

  That would be nice. You know why he hasn't yet done so, right? (Please don't say you don't care.)

• Larry finally chooses names for synchronization primitives.

  When jnthn recently created some detailed designs for concurrency constructs, and implemented them, he used placeholder syntax and names. Larry replaced the placeholders the first day he got to see them and has since refined his thinking about this a couple times and will no doubt do so more as this stuff matures.

• you admin Necza has finally shuffled off into Pugs-like irrelevance.

  Stefan O'Rear, Niecza's original author, has not worked on Niecza this year iirc, and doesn't seem interested in it. Others have landed a few commits this year but it's clearly falling behind Rakudo in terms of spec coverage.

  (I must confess I was delighted when Stefan chose to do some major work on Rakudo rather than Niecza in June/July. He wrote the system level synchronization primitives that were the groundwork for the concurrency constructs just discussed. That said, I've not seen signs of him since.)