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Re: Perl "CAT" response to Pumpking resignation turmoil

by salva (Canon)
on Apr 26, 2021 at 18:09 UTC ( #11131736=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Perl Foundation Community Affairs Team Transparency Report

How could this be off-topic??? (note: the original post had been tagged as Off-Topic)

Matt Trout, an important member of the Perl community which huge and key contributions has been banned for life by a three-people committee (the Community Affairs Team) following a quite unusual procedure and with dubious charges.

I don't know what happened. I have seen some IRC logs, and a Twitter conversation that IMO doesn't really deserve the imposed penalty (if any at all). But, well, maybe there are other causes that didn't become public.

In any case, there are two things that really worry me. One is the powers attributed to that committee: TPF doesn't have a CoC, there is one for conferences, P5P has its own, but nothing really focused on the community as a whole. So, are they doing the rules along the way, deciding what is acceptable and what not? Are they also able to set the penalties on the go? It also seems they can rule everywhere, even in places way outside the domains of the Perl Foundation as Twitter or Freenode.

The other point that worries me is the possibility of Matt being punished just by criticizing the pumpkin, his ideas or his actions. The pumpkin (or the PSC now) is a volunteer and the work he does is inestimable. But he is also a public figure with a great responsibility and his actions are going to impact our future, so I think it is the right of everybody on the community, and specially of somebody like Matt, to scrutinize what he does and challenge him whenever he things he is doing wrong. And even to do it vehemently and persistently.

The pumpkin (or PSC) as a public figure, IMO, doesn't have the right to silence people opposing him, his actions or his ideas.

  • Comment on Re: Perl "CAT" response to Pumpking resignation turmoil

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Re^2: Perl "CAT" response to Pumpking resignation turmoil
by syphilis (Bishop) on Apr 26, 2021 at 23:55 UTC
    How could this be off-topic???

    Good question - and I'm curious to learn how that assessment was reached (and by whom).
    (Also, despite what haj wrote, it was actually "news" to me.)

    Cheers,
    Rob
      hello the node seems to have been modified by some god, moved from News to no where (see here).

      > This posting has been designated as off-topic for the PerlMonks web site. Please do not respond to it.

      The above label has a link to offtopic root where Tough beans are.

      This is the first time I see such ban-ner and it perplexes me: Off-Topic were always accepted and also somehow welcome here. A post or is legitimate or must be reaped: Please do not respond to it ...seriously?

      I ask to be pointed to the perlmonks documetation in regard of this off-topic ban, or otherwise the the banner shall be removed.

      L*

      PS April 27 16:53 GMT-1 I have moved the post back to Perl News

      There are no rules, there are no thumbs..
      Reinvent the wheel, then learn The Wheel; may be one day you reinvent one of THE WHEELS.

      Also, despite what haj wrote, it was actually "news" to me

      Hi Rob, Does it mean you didn't stay in the p5p maillist any more?




      I am trying to improve my English skills, if you see a mistake please feel free to reply or /msg me a correction

        Hi Rob, Does it mean you didn't stay in the p5p maillist any more?

        Hi xiaoyafeng, I'm still subscribed there, and I noticed immediately the announcement that Sawyer had quit.
        But I didn't pick up on the existence (or the activities) of the CAT until I followed the link that 1nickt's original post to this thread provided.
        That's the bit that was "news to me".

        Interestingly, 1nickt's original post seems to have magically reappeared with its "Off Topic" banner removed, and we are no longer discouraged from replying to it.
        Also there's no acknowledgement (that I can see) of the OT banner having ever been there.
        I'm tempted to think that we are all therefore free to edit our posts without acknowledging that we've done so ... but that's probably a right that's given only to the privileged.

        Cheers,
        Rob
Re^2: Perl "CAT" response to Pumpking resignation turmoil
by LanX (Cardinal) on Apr 27, 2021 at 21:49 UTC
    There is a worrying tendency to cannibalism in the last years.

    I don't know this case, the headlines are frustrating enough.

    But I know people who suffered under MSTs outbursts before. So he's certainly part of the general problem.

    I whished the community had stable political structures to canalize different interests into civil discussions and transparent decisions, instead of hurting people in public dog-fights.

    Cheers Rolf
    (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
    Wikisyntax for the Monastery

    PS: I like MST. (Update) I like Sawyer. I like Liz. I like Reini. ...

      LanX, I think you nailed. The question is, why do highly productive and interesting people end upgetting cancelled. On one hand, out bursts are part of it. On the other hand, objective outlets for actual contributions must exist. I think we are lacking the latter, and this can cause frustration for people who just want to get shit done. Imagine all the people who didn't try to raise the alarm, for fear of cancellation. They've just left and nobody even noticed.
        Cancel-Culture is only a new - and very US driven - part of the problem.

        Problem is mainly about communication and gifted politicians who manage that communication. And I don't mean "politician" as a derogatory term.

        And it may surprise you, but I also feel sorry for the members of the CAT committee and TPF, because they damaged their own reputation.

        TPF has neither a legal nor economic basis outside North America, all they have here is respect ... Diminishing that is really sad.

        I'm also happy - most of us should be - that most things I said in the past were not logged in the non-forgetting internet , so that some agitated activist could (ab)use it for an outburst of hate which will cause an avalanche of reactions. (I'm still shuddering about the way Brendan Eich was forced to resign as CEO of Mozilla.)

        We had a discussion at the last German PM online meeting about the CoC for the next GPW, and I tried to lobby for a very minimal one based on common sense and requiring respect for each other.

        I think it's enough that the organizers have all the right to intervene, moderate or ban iff there is a conflict, without trying to codify ever edge-case.

        I don't thinks nerds and social "code" play well together. (Probably because there is no social computer to run test-cases for evaluation... ;-)

        There is that ongoing discussion what Perl needs to survive , and for me the answer is simple:

        More Fun than Frustration.
        And this BS is frustrating...

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery

        update

        BTW: (<irony>) Ze Christmas tree is German and any misuse cultural appropriation. All underlying presents are ours! (</irony>)

Re^2: Perl "CAT" response to Pumpking resignation turmoil
by Bod (Chaplain) on May 07, 2021 at 12:19 UTC
    Matt Trout, an important member of the Perl community which huge and key contributions has been banned for life...

    It appears that today this has been changed from life to one year - according to The Register

Re^2: Perl "CAT" response to Pumpkin resignation turmoil
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 28, 2021 at 01:16 UTC
      hmmm, good collection, thanks. but why are you an anonymous monk? don't you also fear to be punished by CAT?




      I am trying to improve my English skills, if you see a mistake please feel free to reply or /msg me a correction

Re^2: Perl "CAT" response to Pumpking resignation turmoil
by Cody Fendant (Friar) on Apr 29, 2021 at 04:46 UTC
    banned for life

    It might be a good idea to say banned for life from what, exactly?

    They're banned from attending any Perl Foundation conferences or events.

      That is in the announcement linked on the OP:
      The CAT has informed the individual investigated as part investigation #1 and #2 that they are banned from attending any Perl Foundation conferences or events in perpetuity.

      The CAT has instructed the individual to leave and cease participation on any public IRC channels on irc.perl.org, leave and cease participation on the Perl and Raku public channels on Freenode, unsubscribe and cease participation on any Perl and Raku community mailing lists including but not limited to the perl5-porters mailing list

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