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Re^4: Perl Foundation Community Affairs Team Transparency Report

by syphilis (Bishop)
on May 09, 2021 at 12:15 UTC ( #11132305=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^3: Perl Foundation Community Affairs Team Transparency Report
in thread Perl Foundation Community Affairs Team Transparency Report

Interesting, what makes you believe these people to be troublemakers?

I was thinking from the POV of the CAT.
I don't really have a POV on this as I'm pretty sure I'm not in possession of all of the facts.

One thing I do recall is that Andreas (whose name sits at the op of the list of signatories) launched a sustained attack on Sawyer shortly after Sawyer took over as pumpkin.
I can't recall the details, though the interchange should still be available on the p5p archives. I think it was over a lack of communication ... or perhaps something to do with the banning of Marc Lehmann ... or perhaps both.
Anyway, Sawyer maintained it was a situation that he had inherited, rather than one that had been initiated/caused by him. But that didn't seem to deter Andreas.
I can't help but wonder if there's not some long held grudges (clique vs clique ?) being unleashed here.
Of course, I don't really know. Do you ?

Cheers,
Rob
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Re^5: Perl Foundation Community Affairs Team Transparency Report
by marto (Cardinal) on May 09, 2021 at 12:28 UTC

    Honestly, I've no idea. From the list of people on that post, and also those commenting on the thread, the only ones I have some knowledge of/experience with have all been positive in terms of their contributions to perl and the various 'communities'. As I alluded to in one of the other posts I made on this topic in general, there are no so many places (or battlefields) people are posting. I used to glance a p5p from time to time, now apparently official conversations (in so much as decisions are being made, sometimes without engaging anyone else) are taking place on sites like topicbox, which I've found no mention of anywhere within the perlshpere, though I may just have missed it. Add to that blogs.perl.org, dev.to, irc, reddit... as far as I'm concerned there's just too many places that people are using to discuss, make accusations or just troll. IMHO it's not unreasonable for people not to have all the facts, given there's so many outlets for this stuff.

      IMHO it's not unreasonable for people not to have all the facts, given there's so many outlets for this stuff.

      I agree - yet "not having all of the facts" is the exact thing that Neil's letter is complaining about. I gather this is deemed by Neil to be the fault of TPF.

      I just hope that, eventually, the whingeing will stop and those that have been appointed to make decisions will be allowed to simply get on with their job.

      Cheers,
      Rob
        > have been appointed to make decisions

        Who has been appointed by whom?

        > I just hope that, eventually, the whingeing will stop

        The TPF is an US organization meant to finance US YAPCs and grants and has no legal authority outside the US or on platforms run by independent volunteers.

        The demonstrated political dilettantism is simply mind-blowing.

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery

        "I just hope that, eventually, the whingeing will stop and those that have been appointed to make decisions will be allowed to simply get on with their job."

        The problem I have with this is covered well in one of our previous discussions. If the person/people in charge aren't making the right decisions without taking what implementers/other party's responsible for doing the work are saying there are going to be big problems.

      perl-core topicbox mailing list is being used only for internal governance-related discussions, it has replaced a previous private mailing list. It is by no means a replacement for p5p. Perl development is still meant to be discussed on p5p and github. p5p has much, much bigger traffic than perl-core, exactly as intended.

        This was the place where a single volunteer said they no longer wanted to maintain rt.cpan.org, no discussion was offered to allow someone else the opportunity to pick this up. Mails from people not in this group were ignored, as was the pleas from members (some responsible for toolchain and other core perl stuff) that this would cause chaos. This was something not widely publicised, coming as a surprise to many, others I suspect just never found out. Not until this gained a wider audience elsewhere (p5p, even though it could be considered 'off topic' for that list) was something done, almost at the last minute, to stop rt.cpan from closing. See also http://blogs.perl.org/users/martin_mcgrath/2021/01/regarding-the-closure-of-rtcpan.html

        > Perl development is still meant to be discussed on p5p and github

        Yeah, but p5p is a mailing-list, where discussions are decided by endurance and individuals with commit bits.

        The decision process is so efficient that it took less than 20 years to produce "experimental" signatures.

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery

Re^5: Perl Foundation Community Affairs Team Transparency Report
by LanX (Cardinal) on May 09, 2021 at 13:05 UTC
    This is not about some clique Vs clique conflict.

    Bystanders will prefer the drama narrative of a "he said" ... "she said". ... revenge slaughter.

    This is about politics and communication, and the keyword was "clumsy"

    Edit

    And FWIW at least one of those CAT "victims" was instrumental in banning another member in the past.

    Cheers Rolf
    (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
    Wikisyntax for the Monastery

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