Thanks; I have longer response in second reply below. For the tags (ids); I know if i keep drawing stuff and don't delete; it will definitely bog down. I assume that's just because you are forcing the TK side to keep track of all that stuff, and it just has more and more work to do to figure out what is on top. Ok; I see what you did with the bg tag as well; that may help. When I saw that first thing this morning I thought you had stacked all the pixels into a single call; but now I see it's just more tieing them to a tag. Doing that, might make tk's job easier as well. Thanks.