Does anyone use Perl on Windows?

[stevieb]

I took over berrybrew a long time ago, and have spent a lot of time making major enhancements to it. I even had to learn an entirely new programming language to do so (C#).

I don't even use Windows. I stopped doing so before taking over the project. I maintain Windows licenses and VMs solely to work on berrybrew for the Perl community.

I've been a Perl hacker for a while, but I need to know whether my work on berrybrew is worthwhile or not.

Are future efforts worthwhile?

-stevieb

[Discipulus]

Hello stevieb,

> Are future efforts worthwhile?

yes please! for Perl to be usable with the flexibility provided by berrybrew is a major plus. Even if windows does not comes with system's perl and so no problem from this, the ability to switch and test different perl incarnations is precious.

More: in general the Perl Community (give the expression the meaning you find more appropriate) is (with some degree of reason..) a bit of toffee-nosed (we say with stink in the noose in Eatalian) in respect of windows and this is really a pity.

I still see great CPAN authors writing that OS is not supported (also when it is not mandatory), failing tests because the lack of correct path management and this is for me like shooting on their own foot. Also CPAN smoking test machines for the win32 world always used to be from the steam power age.

Windows is there, happy or not for the fact and is a great share of the market, happy or not.

Strawberry Perl is really a sweetie and a mature project, to have berrybrew is huge plus also for newcomers programmers.

So thanks and go on! ..and if possible look also for a co-maintainer for this project just in the case you get too much bored :)

L*

[syphilis]

Are future efforts worthwhile?

I wonder if SP developers have any info on the number of downloads that have been grabbed by berrybrew ?
You could ask about that at https://github.com/StrawberryPerl/Perl-Dist-Strawberry/discussions if you think it's conceivable that such information might be available to them.
(Come to think about it, it's probably the polite thing for you to let them know if you're thinking of ceasing. Give them the opportunity to take it over if they think it's worthwhile.)

If berrybrew is grabbing only builds of Strawberry Perl (as I assume to be the case), then I would think it's not terribly critical.
The portable SP builds provide a fairly simple way of switching to different versions of Strawberry Perl, anyway. (Then again ... maybe it's too clunky for some ?)
But if you find your "berrybrew" activity in any way interesting and/or rewarding, then I'd recommend keeping on with it for those simple reasons (if nothing else).

Cheers,
Rob

[sciurius]

Personally I do not use Windows, but I have some wxPerl applications that are used by 1000+ users. Just like you I have a Windows license and VM only for the creation of installers. It's a pity you needed to learn C# while there is wxPerl to keep it pure.

[davies]

I do, and I know jfrm does. I can't imagine him using berrybrew & I've only played with it.

Regards,

John Davies

[Darkwing]

I am maintaining a Perl application which is used on both, Windows and Linux. So yes, support for Windows makes still sense.

[SankoR]

I moved back to Windows a few months ago after working in Debian/arch/etc. for nearly 15 years. Way back in the days when Chocolate Perl was still a thing, I used to manually swap out different versions of Perl by changing the directory names. :)

This time around, my workflow with perlbrew just didn't fit with how berryperl works. I tried for a day or two but gave up. Minor things like perlbrew's 'switch-off' becoming 'unconfig' in berrybrew for some reason and I didn't want to convert all the little things I'd designed over the years for testing different versions of perl. For the sake of time, I just went with WSL instead. So, I'm on Windows and still use perlbrew.

If I ever required direct Strawberry Perl support, I wouldn't reach for anything other than berrybrew though so I'd hate to see the project go unmaintained. I totally understand not wanting to maintain software you don't personally use though.

[LanX]

I can't comment on Strawberry Perl, but my last client used Active State extensively on Windows and is certainly still doing it.

A year ago I considered switching to berrybrew, but have no news about that.

Regarding Windows licenses and VMs:

I recently switched back to Linux - far less headache, except hibernation - and am also lacking a win license for testing Perl apps cross platform now

But I seem to remember someone talking about cheap/gratis dev licenses from Microsoft.

Tho this might have been restricted to some containers and/or cloud products ... 🤔

[Anonymous Monk]

I use Perl on Windows (for decades), and berrybrew for maybe a year or so. (And am grateful for what you have done with it.) Mostly I use Perl to control Excel -- the programs written some time back. But berrybrew is encouraging me not to rely on older versions under the "If it's not broken, why update it and have to think about what might have changed". So berrybrew keeps me a bit more protected from vulnerabilities.

[dasgar]

I do use Perl on Windows and have used berrybrew.

I'm aware that you have put in a lot of time and work on berrybrew. Because of that, I hesitate to complain or say anything negative because I don't want to disrepect you or your work. One aspect that held me back a little bit on using berrybrew more than I have was not being able to specify where (directory) to install it, but I found work arounds for that (and perhaps newer versions of berrybrew provided this functionality).

Personally, I would like to see berrybrew (or something like it) to continue. Unfortunately I don't think that I have the skills to contribute and I'm not in a position right now to contribute financially (currently unemployed after being laid off). That kind of makes me feel like a freeloader asking for the free ride to continue.

I'm not trying to suggest a total rewrite of berrybrew, but here's something that has been on my mind for some time. I was always thought that perlbrew (the inspiration for berrybrew) basically used Linux shell scripting and line command tools (like curl). I just took a very quick look at its files on GitHub and it looks like it's all shell and Perl code. So I was thinking maybe a similar conceptual approach could be used in berrybrew.

I haven't dug deep into what berrybrew is doing under the hood, but it looks like it reads/modifies the registry and environment variables - and leverages some config files. My thinking is that these can be done by using PowerShell with some Perl code or all in Perl. For the Perl content, to avoid issues regarding availability of Perl and versions of Perl (and modules), use PAR::Packer to bundle the Perl code into a stand-alone Windows executable. Of course, I admit that it's possible that berrybrew is doing something or has some functionality that is only available in a compiled language.

Let me finish by saying thank you for all of the work that you have put into berrybrew since you have taken over the project.

[jdporter]

Does anyone use Perl on Windows?

You're kidding, right? Millions of Perl programmers use Perl on Windows.

Now, as to the specific question of whether your continued efforts on berrybrew are worthwhile, I have no idea, and will defer to others. I myself have never used berrybrew. I only grab the latest Strawberry Perl.
(I've also had to use the perl bundled with things like cygwin and Oracle. :-P)

[Tux]

Oracle + Cygwin + Windows in one sentence. Are you a masochit?

[jdporter]

No, I'm a professional software developer. I work for a medium-sized Beltway Bandit. There are things you have to do to get the job done, and that includes working with tools you might not have preferred were the choice yours alone.

[stevieb]

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I've seen all manner of positive and critical assessment, which of course is what one needs to receive and accept to determine future movement.

Although there doesn't seem to be very much interest in berrybrew going forward, there has been enough to further the burning of the fuel I already have to carry on the project.

What I'd now like to know, from the Windows users, if you can help me, is how can I acquire a license to the OS for my specific project? In the past, I worked for companies who provided such licenses. I'm no longer in such a position.

I'd like to proceed with berrybrew development, but I require assistance with the provisions to do so. Anyone?

[afoken]

how can I acquire a license to the OS for my specific project?

At least in Germany it is legal to sell used licenses, from recycled PCs. Yes, MS absolutely hates that, but they can't do anything against it. There are several companies that have specialized in selling used licenses, for ridiculously low prices. Windows 7 Pro is currently available for around 10 €, Windows 8.1 Pro about 12 €, Windows 10 Pro about 15 €, Windows 11 Pro about 50 €. Some still sell XP and Vista, for abour 10 €. After payment, you typically get a license key and a download link via email. No license sticker, no media.

Alexander

[soonix]

The only officially (permanently) free official Windows from MS I know about is Hyper-V Server 2019. That's a Windows Server 2019 (corresponding to Windows 10) which is restricted to non-GUI Windows functions for running Hyper-V. However, "mainstream" support has already ended.

Edit: There are official evaluation systems (90 or 180 days) here: Accessing trials and kits for Windows

[Anonymous Monk]

Hi Stevieb,
I've been using Windows and Perl for a really long time and I prefer to use berrybrew on all my work and home PCs (usually on virtual Windows installations). Thank you for your work, I really appreciate it.

It makes any future effort worthwhile, at least for me.

-Petre

[stevieb]

Thank you.

The project came to mind recently because I had a long-term client ask me to upgrade their Perl. Years ago, I had designed a custom system with berrybrew that encapsulated the build, test and creation of a complete installer so that they could point-and-click to install an entire platform that included every distribution/module they needed. This system allows them to test their proprietary scripts (which I have never seen) to be used against the entire new Perl instance.

This custom build has filters for every distribution so that it can build most recent CPAN, or existing version that is known-good.

I then send them an exe file that deploys the entire kit-and-kaboodle.

In other words, thanks to you and others, I've regained interest in the project, and will work diligently to finish my outstanding branches, implement changes so issues are closed, and otherwise put a bunch more time into this project that I've babied for many years.

The most interesting thing about all of this, is that I haven't operated a computer that runs Windows in more than 15 years. I took over the berrybrew project with no Windows computers; I just saw an opportunity to further a perlbrew opportunity for the Windows OS, and I grabbed it. I knew nothing of C# (which berrybrew is built with), but I learnt it (to the degree necessary). I have a Windows (10) VM infrastructure solely dedicated to maintain this project.

I'm proud of my work. Goes to show that I love Perl so much, that I'd spend years of my time writing code in a language I don't use, on an operating system I don't use, just so others can use Perl on that OS more efficiently. I never was one who cared about how many people used my software. It's always been about the belief that my open source code would make someone's life better.

-stevieb

[etj]

Your post should really receive all the ++ that exists in the world! Keep fighting the good fight.