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Re: PM Leveling Guide.

by ambrus (Abbot)
on Mar 04, 2015 at 05:43 UTC ( #1118731=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to PM Leveling Guide.

Here's how you gain lots of XP. Reply to questions quickly and get upvoted.

As long as you don't write total nonsense, it doesn't matter what quality your answers are, because people will upvote moderately good answers the same as very good answers. There are no double or triple upvotes.

On the other hand, it does help a lot to reply quickly, because many people will check out most questions only once, and will visit only very few questions again, the ones they have found interesting or relevant to them. Thus, your answer gets a chance to be seen by many people only if you answer fast, before other people visit the same question. The scale is a few hours during the American workday, when most monks visit the site, or up to two days during a weekend.

Further, if a question get multiple replies, they are by default displayed in increasing order of posting time, and the readers may get bored before reading all replies. Due to this, if you expect that a question is easy and will get multiple replies quickly, it may even be worth to cheat by creating your reply first, then filling it with most of the content later, so that it appears above other replies even if you can't write very fast. This is, of course, risky, because if monks see your unfinished reply they might downvote.

You can write questions or other root notes too, with good titles so that people check them out. I've just found that more difficult than writing answers.

Make your writeups easy to understand, not deeply meaningful, because the internet is like television, most of the readers have a short attention span and won't think deeply on the meaning of your nodes. (This doesn't mean you shouldn't post writeups that are well thought out and deep, it's just that they're not the easy way to gain XP.)

When you notice a question such that some older question or reply of yours may be relevant, post a reply linking to those older threads. This way, you direct readers to read and vote on older threads that they would otherwise never see, and get upvotes from them. Notice questions that occurr frequently in Seekers of Perl Wisdom, give an answer to one instance, and then in each following instance, give a link to all older questions asking the same. If you just gave the right answer to a repeating question, you'd get only one upvote. If you link to multiple older questions where you have given the right answer, you'll probably get multiple upvotes, regardless of whether you copy your answer.

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re^2: PM Leveling Guide.
by LanX (Archbishop) on Mar 04, 2015 at 21:03 UTC
    > As long as you don't write total nonsense, it doesn't matter what quality your answers are, because people will upvote moderately good answers the same as very goos answers. There are no double or triple upvotes.

    Exactly this lack of double or triple upvotes makes the system favoring mediocre posts.

    In the first 4 years here I restricted my votes to nodes I considered excellent. The system punished me b/c I didn't exhaust my quota.

    But today even after I started to upvote even moderately good answers I mostly finish the day with 20 votes left. I know that others (e.g. choroba) have similar problems.

    I would love to have the opportunity to give 5 upvotes for excellent elaborated posts even if I lost XP in exchange.

    Cheers Rolf
    (addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)

    PS: Je suis Charlie!

      The system punished me b/c I didn't exhaust my quota.

      Hm. I seriously doubt there has been a single day when I have exhausted all votes in 7/8/9/10 years. Most days I vote 3 or 4 times at most. (I can't prove that; but a God could verify it if they chose to.)

      I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years.


      With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". I'm with torvalds on this
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. Agile (and TDD) debunked

      There must have been simply a tone of good posts 4 years ago, going back to the beginning of PM. As I indicate in my guide on leveling look for places worthy of being voted. Today I'm convinced you could spend a lifetime reading PM and still not have read everything.

      The fortunes file edition:
      I'm convinced you could spend a lifetime reading PerlMonks and still not have read "all the documentation." -- Mike Mestnik

        Come on, at the time of writing your comment, there were only 1118829 nodes on PM, including yours. That is manageable. Come on, show more effort!

      I would love to have the opportunity to give 5 upvotes for excellent elaborated posts even if I lost XP in exchange.

      The problem is downvotes. For example, some people hate certain users, for example, sundialsvc4, and he gets modded down multiple times by the same user via proxy accounts. I've gotten it too, where it was obvious (specifically on two, maaaybe three occasions) that the same user modded me down three times. If mutiple downvotes were allowed, this malicious user, and others like him, would trounce the people they don't like.

      Even if restricted to upvotes, there is an issue. The regulars like to upvote each other, perhaps unconsciously, and thus would be more likely to double upvote each other, making PM high ranked comments a mostly exclusive club of mutual back scratchers. That would be a tragedy.

      Unless you think this comes up really often, i would suggest simply posting a "I really liked that post" post.

        and he gets modded down multiple times by the same user via proxy accounts. I've gotten it too, where it was obvious (specifically on two, maaaybe three occasions) that the same user modded me down three times.

        "Nothing's obvious unless you are overlooking something." I've personally verified that it wasn't happening to the person you called out. Narrow down the time frame for me and I'll probably verify that it hasn't happened to you, either.

        Yes, people have often jumped to this conclusion. So far, they have been wrong every time. But it is human nature to form such conclusions. Some examples: 590525, 652529, 974370.

        - tye        

        Downvoted. I have no sock-puppets so its just the one. You make an accusation without proof based on emotional response and you cite as evidence a monk who has to my knowledge never once answered a technical question with code correctly in seven years, frequently flogs horses, constantly conflates Perl Monks social mores with dungheaps like HuffPo, and gives dangerous, insecure advice under the guise of expertise informed by decades of experience. I began to nearly always downvote this monk in the last few months because the content of posts is usually either of no or negative technical merit and and the social contributions are generally either confused or misplaced or exactly opposed to my compass. I was somewhat shocked recently to see a genuine contribution here that was worth an upvote: Re^2: access array of values without a loop.

        yes downvotes should be excluded. I don't see this "scratching" problem, but who knows.

        > and he gets modded down multiple times by the same user via proxy accounts.

        "Modded down" means voted down?

        How do you want to know about these sockpuppets?

        I know a bunch of real people here who are rather critical about the monk you mentioned, me included. I doubt sockpuppets are needed.

        Creating efficient sockpuppets which are not discovered by a database lookup is IMHO quite difficult.

        UPDATE

        I'd try to restrict the multiple upvotes to 10% of ones quota. Like this you'll need at least 20 votes (Chaplain) before being able to.

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)

        PS: Je suis Charlie!

        ) and IIRC did the admins assure more than once that there is no trace in the DB for such a sockpuppet downvote farm.

        "and he gets modded down multiple times by the same user via proxy accounts"

        Interesting, do you have any evidence to back up this accusation?

Re^2: PM Leveling Guide.
by LanX (Archbishop) on Mar 04, 2015 at 06:01 UTC
    Shush, quiet! Don't give away all secrets... ;-)

    Cheers Rolf
    (addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)

    PS: Je suis Charlie!

Re^2: PM Leveling Guide.
by chacham (Prior) on Mar 04, 2015 at 10:25 UTC

    they are by default displayed in increasing order of posting time, and the readers may get bored before reading all replies.

    If you do come late, reply to the first post (making some comment about it so it seems like its in the right place) and add something intelligent. This puts your post higher up and more likely to be seen.

    OTOH, if people don't check how many votes they use versus how many they have, PM scores bottom post first so the top votes may not be counted. So, the later posts in more recent threads may have a better chance of being hit by Votebots.

      And avoid "Re^4" or deeper replies because, with PM defaults, you have to click again to see them and many people are too lazy to do that.

      To illustrate, notice that this reply is "Re^3" and so may receive stray up-votes from those who "blanket vote" all replies to a node in a single go, without the bother of having to click again to see deeply nested replies.

      BTW, avoiding deeply nested replies appears to be a speciality of sundialsvc4.

      That could work perhaps. If your reply isn't clearly related to its parent, people may assume you've replied to the wrong node by mistake (newbies keep doing that because they can't find the big "Comment on" link for the post, only the small "reply" link next to replies), and then the janitors might reparent it. The reply might still stay in its place long enough for this trick to work.

Re^2: PM Leveling Guide.
by cheako (Beadle) on Mar 04, 2015 at 06:10 UTC
    Got the TL;DR version?

      No. I leave it as an exercise to you to write that. You might even get XP for it, because people read shorter nodes more often.

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