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Re^4: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...

by chacham (Prior)
on Jul 01, 2015 at 12:51 UTC ( #1132803=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^3: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...
in thread And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...

leave replies pointing out what's wrong with it

The stated reason is, "title + your username." So, the reason it is bad is the title? Really?

  • Comment on Re^4: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...

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Re^5: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...
by aaron_baugher (Curate) on Jul 01, 2015 at 13:13 UTC

    If you've been reading his posts for years, then yes, you could know from the title and username what was coming and that it would deserve a downvote. (Heck, I didn't even need to see the username. As soon as I read the title, I knew who wrote it and what it would be like. A quick scan only confirmed it.)

    This isn't something that just sprang up. Reasonable people didn't suddenly become unreasonable out of the blue. This has been going on for years, and people are understandably frustrated. If multiple people who used to be reluctant to downvote at all are becoming quick with the trigger, maybe that shows the extent of the problem.

    Aaron B.
    Available for small or large Perl jobs and *nix system administration; see my home node.

      If multiple people who used to be reluctant to downvote at all are becoming quick with the trigger, maybe that shows the extent of the problem.

      That reason reeks of intolerance. It was used to suppress entire populations.

      Anyway, everyone says ignore, ignore, ignore. You can't? This is a site for programmers. A little magic with javascript (or CSS?) can completely remove a user's posts from view. I'm surprised PM doesn't have a /ignore outside of CB.

      The other argument is that you need to block these posts from new users. However, downvotes do not help at all for that. Firstly, because they cannot see the rep of a post (unless they voted and already have their own opinion about it.) Secondly, points do nothing. Indeed, downvotes seem to just release pressure for those who vote. Like honking your horn after some idiot cuts you off.

      If PM wants to quash a certain user, than quash him. Have a vote or something and just do it. Downvotes achieve nothing.

        That reason reeks of intolerance. It was used to suppress entire populations.

        No, that's just silly. A community can enforce minimal standards of acceptable behavior without "suppressing entire populations." Let's not invoke Godwin's Law over one annoying troll. That's simply an argument for having no standards at all.

        Downvotes achieve nothing.

        Maybe that's the point we're trying to make by using them.

        Look, we've had this discussion before. We tried ignoring him. The problem with that is it leaves him free to post his nonsense unopposed where newbies will find it and be misled or driven away from Perl. That's no good for a programming help site that can be entered at any node from search engines. We've tried reasoning with him, but he's not interested. If we bring up banning him, or even reaping his posts, that's shot down as censorship. You just argued that downvoting his posts is tantamount to "suppressing" people, but you'd support outright banning him? That seems backwards.

        So all we're left with is downvotes and explaining why he's wrong. Over and over. Day after day. Year after year.

        If you have a better solution, one that hasn't already been tried and failed or suggested and shot down, and that won't make people faint at the spectre of censorship or suppression, please offer it. The community needs it.

        Aaron B.
        Available for small or large Perl jobs and *nix system administration; see my home node.

Re^5: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...
by Anonymous Monk on Jul 01, 2015 at 13:04 UTC
    The title is the subject; the subject is tired, worn out and repetitious.

    Were it a different monk; one might refer them to earlier discussion, but this monk already knows of them; given he started them all.

    Everyone is already aware of his opinion, and most of us hove roundly rejected it several times.

    So yes. Title + username is sufficient to reach the same conclusion as we did the previous 5 times.

      Everyone is already aware of his opinion, and most of us have roundly rejected it several times.

      Not only that, but we know that he's not offering it as a suggestion for the improvement of the site. He doesn't like downvoting because he's spent years alienating and aggravating the members of the site, and now that people are fed up and fighting back with the only weapon they have -- downvotes -- he doesn't like it. He wants to shut down that method of criticism.

      I happen to agree with him on anonymous posting. I don't care for it, though for very different reasons than he. But it's part of the site, so I accept it and move on. I don't post numerous screeds against it, repeating the same arguments over and over even after people beg me to stop. I don't dedicate myself to cluttering up the site with nonsense out of spite because it doesn't follow my wishes. I don't start fights with other members over it and turn them into lifelong grudge matches. He does.

      Aaron B.
      Available for small or large Perl jobs and *nix system administration; see my home node.

      Note: That is a bogus claim. This is an oft discussed point and there is no consensus on the matter.

        [Citation needed]

        I can't recall ever seeing the elimination of downvotes discussed outside of a sundialsvc4-intitated thread and the idea has been soundly rejected by the large majority of respondents in every such thread.

        If it's "oft discussed", that's solely because this one poster refuses to let the topic die.

        If "there is no consensus"... well... umm... I genuinely can't see any way to interpret reality in which that's the case. There is a strong consensus, as can be seen by reviewing any of the previous threads on the topic.

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