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Re: Crash-Test Dummies: A Few Thoughts on Website Testing

by sundialsvc4 (Abbot)
on Oct 12, 2015 at 13:46 UTC ( #1144529=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Crash-Test Dummies: A Few Thoughts on Website Testing

Here are a few specific failures that are on the “flush list” (if I may borrow your quaint term ...) of ways in which we can make most web sites that we encounter drop to their knees.   How many of these apply to you?

(1)   Duplicate the GET string in the URL, converting single values into multi-valued ones.

(2)   Alter the values in a POST, such as variable names for non-keys.   NULL values often get posted instead.   In one case, we succeeded in wiping-out a customer’s name in this way.   (All validation was performed on the client-side; none by the server.)

(3)   Submit two POSTs within milliseconds of each other, before the reply from the first can be returned.   The two POSTs execute simultaneously, and nearly every web site out there (for some reason) uses MySQL without benefit of SQL transactions.   If you alter the value slightly in the second POST, it usually fails in some way because the first POST (still in process) has altered values just ahead of it.

(4)   &is_admin=1.   Stupid how often that works.

(5)   Fiddling the values of hidden fields, which are often used to communicate not only state, but data.   As a cardinal rule, the client should never be trusted, since the host (when dealing with a deliberate attempt at sabotage) cannot even know whether the intended client code is running at all.

(6)   Observing the sequence of JSON calls that routinely occur and simply running those in an unpredictable sequence, especially running calls before their pre-requisite calls have occurred.   It becomes pathetically obvious that the correct operation of the host depends utterly on the correct operation of the client.   (In none notable case, the POST exchange simply got bigger and bigger, and, sure enough, the final JSON call would happily commit to the database anything that it received.   Every single thing was fully exposed to the client.)

(7)   Mobile app developers, especially non-hybrid apps, innocently assume that no one can read their traffic, and that no one but their intended client can submit to their host.   They fail to use SSL, and fail to check for the presence of debuggers.

In short ... code that is accepted, and released to production, based only on time-strapped programmers verifying that the app or site “seems to work” when they ... who of course know it the very best ... use it in exactly the “right” way.   And, in particular, blithely assuming that no one out there possesses a comparable level of technical knowledge and intends to do them harm.

Now, in starting this Meditation, I did not intend to merely hear my own head rattle.   I was frankly hoping that other Monks, instead of merely (and Anonymously, and repeatedly?!) referring to “poo,” would share some stories of their own ... beyond a mere blanket reference to OWASP, which of course is a resource well worth bookmarking.   Every one of us has to build and maintain apps or sites that are robust and secure, even against deliberate attempts to cause mischief.   Yet, the Internet is apparently full of sites that can be dropped (and in ways that promote widely-read magazine articles) using nothing more than a debugger.

What are your stories, and what did you do about them?   Did it prompt you to use a particular CPAN module, a particular framework, or to adopt a particular Best-to-you Practice?

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Re^2: Crash-Test Dummies: A Few Thoughts on Website Testing
by Your Mother (Bishop) on Oct 12, 2015 at 14:31 UTC

    Yes. You point out some bad, terrible practices that happen in the wild at either hopelessly amateur shops or shops that grew too fast from the naïve age of CGI and have escaped being hacked by virtue of being too small or too pointless to be worth the trouble; or not knowing they have been hacked.

    The list of responses and practical fixes to the issues would fill an entire website, which you already cited: OWASP. There is NO package or module or framework or single set of best practices that solves for all this and even if there were it would change constantly. You just have to know what you're doing and you have to keep up.

    Every dev worth her salt knew the context sensitivity in CGI->param so used it without introducing exploits. Mojolicious cookies are slightly more secure out of the box than other current frameworks. Crypt::Eksblowfish::Bcrypt passwords are better by far than Digest::SHA but new chips and algorithms have already made it weaker than it was. It's a laundry list full of—Yeah, so what? You need to know that—and like a doctor who doesn't read medical journals, a dev who doesn't keep up with the art isn't safe or reliable.

    Imagine posting on a biology forum: Mobility in organisms? Let's hear your ideas. It's a sawed-off shotgun fired into the air. Picking one security issue or an actual, open problem you're facing with some GODDAMNED WORKING CODE would be more likely to fruit.

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