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in reply to Re: A thought-provoking external article about abusive web-sites
in thread A thought-provoking external article about abusive web-sites

"No, cupcake, it's just you that we abuse here, because you keep posting tripe.."

With respect, I take issue with this, I don't think anyone is here to abuse sundialsvc4. In my experience here the users are generally very supportive and friendly, more so than any other online community I've had reason to use. If I give bad advice I expect others to call me out on it or correct me. The vast majority of the time this has been done in a very friendly manner. I appreciate that it can become frustrating when someone ignores such corrections and continues to post bad advice time and time again (for years). It's better to reply with the facts, rather than abuse. Hopefully the uninitiated we're concerned about will soon get wise to the guilty few, and ignore them. This is why there is value in responding to such posts without abuse, pointing out nonsense (technical or otherwise) and sticking to the facts.

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Re^3: A thought-provoking external article about abusive web-sites
by dsheroh (Monsignor) on Oct 27, 2015 at 09:08 UTC
    I absolutely agree with your experience of the Monastery, and I have the same expectation of being called out or corrected when wrong. And I also agree that "It's better to reply with the facts, rather than abuse."

    I'd like to say that I don't think anyone intends to be deliberately abusive towards sundialsvc4, but, honestly... I can't. You can't just accidentally log yourself out and post obvious troll replies to him, so the number of AnonyMonks trolling him is a pretty strong argument that some people are deliberately abusive. Which isn't something I mean to endorse, but I do understand where it comes from.

    In any case, what I was trying to get at with the line you took issue with was that sundialsvc4's experience of the site is rather different than that of the average poster to the site (new or otherwise). Offhand, I can't think of anyone else that the site is half as hostile towards as it is towards him, so his experience of the site is not a good gauge of its attitude towards new users.

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      Thanks for your reply

      "You can't just accidentally log yourself out and post obvious troll replies"

      sundialsvc4 does this frequently actually. A recent example Re^4: Examples where XML::Simple is the optimal choice? (ignoring the obvious pointed out here). This has been going on for years and they've never bothered to use their 'skills' to help diagnose the problem, despite various 'call to arms' posts over this period that we should all band together to improve this site/community/perl. The phrase you use 'obvious troll replies' is interesting, there's obvious abuse, for example name calling, then there's subtle trolling (which is arguably a form of abuse), for example posting the same hackneyed incorrect advice time and time again for years despite having been corrected many times already. The former is unpleasant the latter is down right dangerous. Neither are ideally what we want here.

      tye has many interesting write ups on the subject of trolls. IMHO he has vast experience of the issue here (this site), and likely elsewhere. In the history of this site we've had some very disruptive trolls, some even damaging to the stability of the site. These posts are worth searching for, over the years tye has spoken on the subject many times, with great insight of the issues at hand.

      The perceived hostility likely comes from the fact that the usual tactics have often failed to yield positive results. For example, posting a correction, pointing out the he is wrong. The majority of such posts don't even get a reply. There's a good chance that you'll see exactly the same thing posted again later.

      Sticking to the facts and pointing out the errors/problems with sundialsvc4 posts seems to have zero impact on him, however we can only hope the uninitiated see such corrections and learn from them. In this respect, and matching our (yours and my) expectations of being called out/corrected when wrong is a good gauge of the site. We should not be afraid to correct one another, even if the person being called out never improves. It's far easier to change your own behaviour than it is to alter someone else's, but this is an ongoing struggle and I can appreciate that people may grow tired, bored or frustrated with the root cause of the problem and lash out.

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        Which is kinda strange, 'cause compared to the trolls of old sundialsvc4 is kind and on topic. I would not even call him a troll. Sometimes he's boasting about himself a bit too much, sometimes he's spreading misinformation, but in general I do think he is a little picked on.

        Jenda
        Enoch was right!
        Enjoy the last years of Rome.

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