Re^9: Update the GUI (What we want?)

Ajax voting, (why should this be hard?)
- There is no REST interface; pretty sure. Writing a JS interface overlaid on a legacy HTML interface is possible but *terribly* verbose and not fun at all.
readily available data, (?)
- SO publishes tons of sliced data on questions and answers. This doesn't exist in PM. Backend changes would be necessary to make it reasonable.
tagging system, (well we have tags. ..)
- Questions are always and trivially tagged and untagged in SO. The tagging system here is completely free form and not useful as it stands.
the schema, (can't tell)
- Like above. If the data isn't in the DB and the DB makes it torturous or a serious performance problem... the JS has to mimic/map a database to a brand new (virtual/in-browser) database.
the encoding quirks, (?)
- UTF-8 is not supported correctly here. Try putting "ಠ_ಠ" into code tags. :P Or just a post and see how it comes back in the edit/update <textarea/>.
the sub-HTML rules, (???) °
- The rules for posts do not allow real HTML but a mini-version based on 1999 HTML standards that allows things like <code/> tags.

Compare Metacpan to Cpan, just the visual impression.

Metacpan is just a better site. "Design" is not all that different. Information layout is, which some might call design. What is different: API, social linking features, code viewing, availability of tools, search works better, responsiveness of developers, so much information above the fold, mobile docs, dev activity charts. So, basically all the kinds of things I'd like at PM that range from difficult to impossible as is stands. :P

> If a job is even 10% harder than it absolutely needs to be... reasoning sounds like a perfect justification to abandon Perl 5 and to wait til 6 is ready. :b

Perl6 is today, and for the foreseeable future, more than 10% harder. I'm interested in Perl6 succeeding but for now I am still a Perl5 fanmunk.

And I would be first in line to volunteer for a Perl5 rewrite of PM. I would participate in a Perl6 rewrite too but less enthusiastically just because so far it's less fun (doc, bugs, speed).

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Re^10: Update the GUI (What we want?) by LanX (Saint) on Jul 23, 2016 at 20:33 UTC
thanks, just some remarks (more to come) > There is no REST interface; pretty sure. Some ppl wrote plenty of xml tickers, some of those even needing authorization. Adding a new vote-interface shouldn't be harder, unless I'm missing something. See What XML generators are currently available on PerlMonks? > Perl6 is today, and for the foreseeable future, ... Sorry not my point, it was meant as analogy. There is no Meta-Perlmonks available today. We didn't stop continuing Perl5 development 15 years ago because of the prospect of a better tool to come, which is 10% better. (Well some did) We (except you ;) should continue developing PM too. > Metacpan is just a better site. "Design" is not all that different. Information layout is, which some might call design. I agree from the perspective of the experienced Perl user. Most visitors probably aren't and will judge their "Perl xyx" search hits after 500 ms by the colors and fonts. My priority ATM is to improve this impression, not to compete with SO (yet) Cheers Rolf _{(addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :) Je suis Charlie!}	[reply]
Re^11: Update the GUI (What we want?) by Your Mother (Archbishop) on Jul 23, 2016 at 21:22 UTC
The reason why I think it's a terrible way to go about it is it completely violates good web app design concerns. It uses the View and the Model and half of the Controller as a TERRIBLE API to construct a new view, a new hybrid model which consumes the view and the model and turns it into a new model, and new controllers which have to account for all this mess to create a new, more reasonable, interface. It's possible, sure, and if someone smarter than I am can show how to do it well, I'd rejoice and sing hosannas. I've been doing this awhile though and CSS improvements, like what tobyink did, and perhaps some Ajax voting are about as much as could be expected and it wouldn't be super easy and would (probably) still require user action to add the CSS and JS manually. Therefore this would be of zero use to newcomers and casual visitors... If the Gods determine the scripts/CSS are safe enough to implement in the actual site delivery, maybe... I would never advise anyone to build out technical debt though. I wouldn't try to stop them to strongly either. :P The core of what this site is/does is quite basic and if just a couple of monks with the chops committed to it, it would be done in 6 months. Less if bikeshedding could be avoided.	[reply]
Re^12: Update the GUI (What we want?) by LanX (Saint) on Jul 24, 2016 at 13:11 UTC
> It uses the View and the Model and half of the Controller as a TERRIBLE API I agree. But what are the alternatives? (Closing PM down and "defecting" to SO? ;-) Since you are rejecting the DB scheme, even building an new alternative MVC application on top of the data seems out of discussion, right? And if you did this new MVC front end, it might take so long that new requirements would arise, not talking about all the additional legacy plugins which might get obsolete in the meantime. I have a strategical point of view on the things, improving the design will bring the best and fastest return of investment ... politically, technically and from a marketing perspective. And afterwards a long term strategy can improve the other issues you listed > If the Gods determine the scripts/CSS are safe enough to implement in the actual site delivery, maybe That's my plan. For me Toby's approach is "only" a prove of concept. I plan to invest a week to improve it (in my own "dogfood" interest ;) after YAPC::EU, build a show case and try to convince the gods of a long term strategy. Cheers Rolf _{(addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :) Je suis Charlie!}	[reply] [d/l]
Re^13: Update the GUI (What we want?) by Your Mother (Archbishop) on Jul 25, 2016 at 00:02 UTC
Re^14: Update the GUI (What we want?) by LanX (Saint) on Jul 25, 2016 at 00:17 UTC
Re^11: Update the GUI (What we want?) by Anonymous Monk on Jul 23, 2016 at 21:50 UTC
Adding a new vote-interface shouldn't be harder, unless I'm missing something. Its very trivial to add :) As in its done Re: Perlmonks AJAX Voting (greasemonkey plugin)	[reply]
Re^12: Update the GUI (What we want?) by Your Mother (Archbishop) on Jul 23, 2016 at 22:10 UTC
*It's. Are you using it? This is how it interacts when used from the free nodelet– The XSS Auditor refused to execute a script in 'http://perlmonks.org/?' because its source code was found within the request. The auditor was enabled as the server sent neither an 'X-XSS-Protection' nor 'Content-Security-Policy' header.	[reply]
Re^13: Update the GUI (What we want?) by Anonymous Monk on Jul 23, 2016 at 23:24 UTC
Re^14: Update the GUI (What we want?) by Your Mother (Archbishop) on Jul 24, 2016 at 01:28 UTC
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Re^12: Update the GUI (What we want?) by LanX (Saint) on Jul 24, 2016 at 10:44 UTC
From what I understand this approach is wasting resources. I don't see the point to return several kb of html with the full node just to let JS parse the votes out. (Except maybe for a prove of concept of DOM manipulation) update as I already said > > > > Adding a new vote-interface shouldn't be harder Cheers Rolf _{(addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :) Je suis Charlie!}	[reply]
Re^13: Update the GUI (What we want?) by Anonymous Monk on Jul 24, 2016 at 22:03 UTC
Re^14: Update the GUI ("talk" button) by LanX (Saint) on Jul 24, 2016 at 23:07 UTC
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Re^9: Update the GUI (What we want?)

update