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Reduce Newbie Confusion

by choroba (Archbishop)
on Apr 06, 2017 at 14:42 UTC ( #1187299=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Can't we rename Perl Monks Discussion to "Site Discussion"? Maybe newbies won't post their Perl-related questions there so frequently .

($q=q:Sq=~/;[c](.)(.)/;chr(-||-|5+lengthSq)`"S|oS2"`map{chr |+ord }map{substrSq`S_+|`|}3E|-|`7**2-3:)=~y+S|`+$1,++print+eval$q,q,a,

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by Eily (Monsignor) on Apr 06, 2017 at 15:29 UTC

    Well, the last case of a post ending (edit: or well, starting) in the wrong section is not really a newbie issue, because Nansh did it right the first time, and all following root nodes had to be moved...

    If the section is renamed though, I think dropping the "Discussion" altogether might be better, like "About Perlmonks". And adding a link at the top of the Monastery Gates that directs the (logged in?) newbies to SoPW would be more helpful IMHO. Something like "Got a Perl question, or need help debugging your perl code?".

    Edit: thanks ambrus for showing me how to post a link to the #post anchor of the node 479 :D

      IIRC someone moved the first post Nansh made, before the repost.

        Well I looked at the Node history of that first node, and its the only empty one.

        Edit: oh wait, you talked about a repost. This won't appear in the Node History.

Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by pryrt (Monsignor) on Apr 06, 2017 at 15:06 UTC

    I'm not sure that's really sufficiently clear; a newbie might assume "any perl question about my site" goes there.

    As an alternative, maybe use two SUBMIT buttons (or radioboxes) for lower-level monks, one which claims it's a perl-related question, the other that it's about the website, so they have the explicit choice; if they choose the perl-related option, give an error message instead of the normal submission-results:

    sub generate_pmd_form { ... if(level($monk) < $n) { $pmd_form->add_submit("This post is about Perl"); $pmd_form->add_submit("This post is about the perlmonks website" +); } ... } ... sub process_pmd_submit { if($form_submit eq "This post is about Perl") { print err_message("wrong forum; you meant SOPW") return generate_pmd_form(); } ... normal submission acceptance ... }

    ... or maybe a Monk's first N posts to PMD should have the dual-option. Or maybe add an option to display settings that says "☐ I know what PMD is for, and will not post perl-related questions there (turns off the extra SUBMIT/RADIOBOXES for PMD submission)" (default unchecked for new users)

    (edit: clarify the display setting defaults to unchecked)

Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by chacham (Prior) on Apr 06, 2017 at 18:20 UTC

    I don't think the confusion is in the name PMD, rather in the name SoPW. For example, if SoPW were renamed to "Perl Forum" or "The Link to Click to ask Questions about Perl," PMD wouldn't even be looked at. Addressing the PMD name or related items avoids the actual problem by addressing one of the more common mistakes.

    Nonetheless, the site has a certain flavor, and the names are what they are. Renaming them for clarity, would remove some of the flavor and, perhaps, some of the fun. Perhaps it should be left as is.

    I would suggest, should a suggestion need to be made, that instead newbies have hints on the links, or explanations under them explaining what they are. On by default, and turned off via an option in settings.

Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by shmem (Chancellor) on Apr 07, 2017 at 21:44 UTC
    Maybe newbies won't post their Perl-related questions there so frequently .

    How frequent is "so frequently"? Can it be mesured in percent, or better in promille? Experienced Monks have access to the Approval Nodelet and can move an unapproved node into another section. How many nodes have been moved from Perl Monks Discussion only after approval and after "consideration"?

    I second Anonymous Monk post, although that shouldn't be a button - it would be against PerlMonks hair - but rather a new link in the navbar: "Post a new perl question" or such with a link to a node which just displays the Add your question section and form of Seekers of Perl Wisdom.

    perl -le'print map{pack c,($-++?1:13)+ord}split//,ESEL'
Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by wjw (Priest) on Apr 06, 2017 at 20:33 UTC

    Might it work to simply add a small hover/pop-up which includes a short but accurate description of what that link is for?

    Perhaps there is a moratorium against javascript being added to the site, I don't know and would understand if there is. However I think that hover script on some of the key links like the one in question and some of the other key links might help with the newbie issue and not be much of a bother to more experienced users.

    ...the majority is always wrong, and always the last to know about it...

    A solution is nothing more than a clearly stated problem...

      a moratorium against javascript being added to the site

      Who needs javascript? CSS has tooltips (howto).

Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by ww (Archbishop) on Apr 06, 2017 at 15:45 UTC
    • Discuss_This_Site
    • PM_issues
    • Talk_about_PerlMonks
    • etc...

    Update: HUMBUG!
    The prev reply had NOT yet appeared when this was created, but since they're slightly different, I offer apologies only for not creating both as a single node.

    check Ln42!

Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by Discipulus (Abbot) on Apr 06, 2017 at 19:38 UTC
    Hello choroba

    mah! maybe is just a matter of character size: we can increase the clear banner it appears as soon as you enter in PerlMonks Discussion section and you have to enter there to post there: it goes very clear:

    This section is only for discussing issues pertaining to the PerlMonks web site. You can ask about how things work, or offer ideas on how the site could be improved, for example.

    Unless the topic pertains to the PerlMonks web site, it does not belong in this section. If you're unsure, check out Where should I post X? and The Perl Monks Guide to the Monastery, or ask in the chatterbox.

    In addition recent examples of wrong section posting where reposts or hammering of the same question after deleting the original post. Even the same question under different nickname iirc.


    There are no rules, there are no thumbs..
    Reinvent the wheel, then learn The Wheel; may be one day you reinvent one of THE WHEELS.
Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion , add new question button
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 06, 2017 at 22:50 UTC

    The solution has always been make it dead obvious how to ask a question with a new question button as seen on every web forum that ever was

    But no, "we" want the confused newbie to read stuff and scroll stuff before he can find the correct door

    And every year there are fewer and fewer new questions asked

Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 06, 2017 at 19:19 UTC

    Was it not mentioned somewhere in the docs that any such renames are going to be made very reluctantly? The sections are probably referenced by name in many nodes. OTOH, having multiple aliases sounds like xkcd://927....

      Would it not be possible to leave a wiki like redirection, so anyone going to the old pages is redirected to the new?


      Pereant, qui ante nos nostra dixerunt!

        Would it not be possible to leave a wiki like redirection, so anyone going to the old pages is redirected to the new?

        Sure it would be possible, but its not sensible

        Newbees aren't confused because "PerlMonks Discussions" to them sounds like "I want to ask a question here"

        Newbees are confused because there is no prominent ask new question here button/link , so they use the first form they stumble upon

        Now if the link in the navbar needs improvement, well then you simply change the text of the link (Site Bugs ), you don't change what it links to ( PerlMonks Discussion ), as its had that name for 17 years

        But like I said, the problem isn't the name of pmdiscuss, the problem is lack of new question button, an old and well known problem, but the gods dont think its needed, so situation remains stupid :)

        Maybe you bold the Seekers of Perl Wisdom link in the navbar and make it <blink>Seekers of Perl Wisdom</blink>

Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by ww (Archbishop) on Apr 06, 2017 at 15:38 UTC

    Agree with pryrt. Perhaps something more like

    • Discussion-This_Site (yes, looks long, but actually fewer chars than full title of SOPW
    • Discuss_PerlMonks
    • OnSite_issues

    just FWIW, which ain't much

Re: Reduce Newbie Confusion
by huck (Prior) on Apr 06, 2017 at 15:58 UTC

    Website discussions?

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