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Perhaps it's time to look at Perl 6 ?

by Anonymous Monk
on Oct 13, 2018 at 02:48 UTC ( #1223957=perlmeditation: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Interesting meditation on Perl from a programmer dealing with a "complete nightmare" after 8 years of Beautiful is better than ugly:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18182921


"But seriously, many computer scientists have fallen into the trap of trying to define languages like George Orwell’s Newspeak, in which it is impossible to think bad thoughts. What they end up doing is killing the creativity of programming.

A more insidious trap, promulgated in many places these days (including the most recent Discover magazine), is that a computer program should be beautiful. Let me tell you that when it comes to computer languages, this is totally bogus. If you want to do beautiful art, you don’t go out and buy a beautiful canvas, and a beautiful brush, and a beautiful palette, and slather beautiful paints on it. If you want to write beautiful poetry, this doesn’t happen because you started with a beautiful language. Languages are an artistic medium. I don’t want Perl to be beautiful–I want you to write beautiful programs in Perl.

Finally, I believe that any language essentially should be out of control, because no one person or institution is capable of controlling a language (or a culture, for that matter) without destroying it. Living languages are always a cooperative effort, and I want Perl to be a living language."

From https://www.perl.com/pub/1997/wall/keynote.html


Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Perhaps it's time to look at Perl 6 ?
by davido (Cardinal) on Oct 13, 2018 at 23:46 UTC

    I don't disagree that beautiful expression and constructs are possible in any computer language that doesn't strive to stifle creativity. And of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But there is this paraphrased quote informally ascribed to Charles V:

    I speak in Latin to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse.

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Charles_V,_Holy_Roman_Emperor

    Depending on who is quoting it, the languages and targets are sometimes swapped around, though, which does lend credence to the notion that it's totally bogus. :)

    Mostly, your post just reminded me of the quote.


    Dave

      > But there is this paraphrased quote informally ascribed to Charles V:

      I took an interest into his biography, he grew up in Ghent and was only fluent in French, Flemish and Latin. He only learned some Spanish to be accepted by the local nobility after taking the Spanish throne.

      If he was talking about German he probably meant Dutch, since they where considered the same "language" at that time. ( Interestingly German used to be called "High Dutch" in English - with "Low Dutch" denoting modern day Dutch, Flemish and Low German)

      It's reported that his "High Dutch" was very limited, probably enough for a horse.

      Since Germany has no political centre like Paris or London it's pretty hard to tell how his German would have sound like, the modern pronunciation standard was mostly unknown before the age of radio. (For comparison Yiddish is 80% medieval German)

      No evidence he spoke Italian, though his possessions covered Sicily and Sardinia, but I'd be very surprised if they spoke anything like the dialect of Firenze which became modern Italian.

      And I've met more than one Canadian claiming that Quebecois is just old French. ( likewise Geordie is old English)

      Tl;Dr ... his languages didn't really sound like they do today.

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

Re: Perhaps it's time to look at Perl 6 ?
by jdporter (Canon) on Dec 05, 2018 at 16:33 UTC

    Thank you for bringing the Zen of Python to my attention. It has helped crystallize in my mind why I dislike Python: I strongly disagree with a large number of its philosophical underpinnings.

    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
Re: Perhaps it's time to look at Perl 6 ?
by Anonymous Monk on Oct 18, 2018 at 21:49 UTC
    Still very happy with Perl after ~20 years!

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