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Re^2: Perl 11

by Anonymous Monk
on Oct 24, 2018 at 20:28 UTC ( [id://1224613]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Perl 11
in thread Perl 11

cperl is interesting, but how long will the effort be kept up?

cperl has been around for ~7 years (2012) and the last 4 commits are only 5 days old:

69,204 commits
155 branches
320 releases
433 contributors

There are many stable releases and, as I understand it, the author has a point to prove about p5p (perl11.org/blog/p5p-incompetence.html). I think it's safe to say this fork of Perl is here to stay.

From a practical point of view, it seems most of its advantages require coding for cperl, rather than as a performance enhanced runtime alternative to perl.

AFAIK cperl is 99% compatible with CPAN, rperl is the "re-strict-ed" one: twitter.com/rperlcompiler

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Re^3: Perl 11
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Oct 24, 2018 at 21:05 UTC
    as I understand it, the author has a point to prove about p5p

    Maybe, but Reini has been unable to communicate that point without being personally abusive, so p5p doesn't want to work with him.

      I trust the diligence and competency of the p5p over a single author who's nature is attack-if-questioned, any day.

      That's life in general, generally.

      The title of the linked blog post says it all, really.

        I trust the diligence and competency of the p5p over a single author who's nature is attack-if-questioned, any day.

        WRT technical issues, I don't care much about attitude, lack of education or social skills or political correctness. Nonwithstanding the linked blog post being vitriolic, I'd rather want to see the points raised therein disproved. And I'd really like seeing Abigail-II back here, which isn't going to happen, and neither tchrist nor TimToady. Sigh.

        perl -le'print map{pack c,($-++?1:13)+ord}split//,ESEL'
        >  author who's nature is attack-if-questioned

        That's not describing him in any way. He's actually a very nice guy.

        Ask others who met him personally.

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

      He's highly skilled, passionate about Perl and desperate about the current situation.

      Actually I see parallels between both of you.

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

        I see parallels between both of you.

        Reini's smarter and more skilled than I am. I appreciate the compliment.

        Other than Chip once (justifiably) calling me out for being a jerk on IRC, I haven't been banned from p5p or even warned.

      I have a lot of respect for both of you (Chromatic and Stevieb) and suspect you're far better informed on these issues, but I feel like Flavio Poletti when he said, "P5P outsider here ... I didn't see abusing, only discussion on technical merits. Is the reference to the CoC actually referring to some other discussion, or maybe to some moderation applied to that thread? I genuinely don't know." in blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2016/04/the-removal-of-the-lexical-topic-feature-in-524.html (with no reply)

      Kicking a genius out of p5p and off blogs.perl.org for technical criticism of other people's work is shameful and deeply offends my understanding of freedom of speech. We would be better off if p5p was a ferocious sharktank of adult concepts rather than a kindergarten of childish hurt feelings. While cooperation is necessary, some competition is also healthy, and justified criticism should lead to self-improvement--and of course that goes BOTH ways (as we see in SOPW every day, or at least, every other day :) On the other hand there are claims of inaccuracies, however the opportunity to justify THAT claim was suspiciously renounced, in the last comment here: blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2016/04/overview-of-current-maintainer-fails.html

      I don't know enough to take a side, except the side of Perl. Maybe he needed time-out like Linus did, or maybe some snowflakes need to stop melting when light hits them. I do know that Reini is a very intelligent, informative and amusing Perl-critic on brutal mode: perl11.org/blog/cperl-is-not-a-religion.html

      It would be wonderful to see some sort of reconciliation and reunification of Perl's best minds to help propel it into the 21st century, and beyond. Developments in Perl seems to be approaching a critical mass for a glorious future. I wish Larry would take control of Perl 5 for a bit just to set things straight and heal the community.

      Peace, Love & Perl!

        Kicking a genius out of p5p and off blogs.perl.org for technical criticism of other people's work is shameful and deeply offends my understanding of freedom of speech.

        That's not what happened.

        We would be better off if p5p was a ferocious sharktank of adult concepts rather than a kindergarten of childish hurt feelings.

        I don't understand this hypothetical, because that's not what happened.

        I don't know enough to take a side

        But you did.

        Let's go through a handful of Reini's claims. For example, from Overview of Current Maintainer Fails:

        p5p refuses to take bug and security reports

        That's nonsense. Easily refuted.

        the toolchain is typically the gathering place for all the important people too incompetent to do core

        That's an attack, backed up by... what exactly?

        I've looked over all my >100 distroprefs patches, and in the end problems are only with ether and schmorp. schmorp at least knows what he is doing and eventually comes up with fixes by himself.

        This is inconsistent with the previous approach, but clearly an attack on Karen. It's also backed up by... nothing.

        The maintainer doesn't have an idea how compile-time vs run-time works

        Same.

        It's pretty hard to have faith in someone who decides 90% on the wrong side and only by luck sometimes makes a right decision.

        Clearly an attack.

        the p5p principles of ruling by incompetence, power and abuse are not tolerated

        Same.

        I could go on.

        maybe some snowflakes need to stop melting when light hits them

        I think it's more likely that volunteers don't want to take abuse from someone who refuses to communicate with anything other than abuse. There are only so many patches I'm likely to review if every comment is answered with "you're too stupid and incompetent to ask questions, just merge the patch or you're deliberately destroying something".

        But what do I know, I'm only (as you say) far better informed on these matters.

        >  reunification of Perl's best minds to help propel it into the 21st century

        The lesson I learned in many years of participation in various fields of "voluntary work" is that it's often not the quality of the minds, nor their good intention, nor the amount of sacrifice they are willing to make which determines the outcome of group dynamics.

        Sometimes the system is just broken.

        Just compare how Chromatic is nowadays spreading much vitriol on Perl 6 personal, after being one of their poster boys.

        Nevertheless I'm trying to judge his posts here on a technical level. I'm assuming that he is somehow desperate about how the system failed.

        So maybe we should try judging cPerl without going ad hominem?

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

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