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on wasted votes ...

by vladb (Vicar)
on Apr 18, 2002 at 19:25 UTC ( [id://160313]=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Being an abbot, I have 25 votes to use every day. However, I often find myself left with a substantial number of unspent votes (lets put the average number at 15). Lately, it started to worry me..

I'm wondering if it's a sign of inadequate participation in monastery matters? Or could it be lack of appreciation of nodes posted by other monks (I'd like to hope not!)? This also could be tied to being overly greedy and not willing to spend a vote on an otherwise worthy node. At times I think that I'd rather save a vote for later in case I come across a really exceptional node. Unfortunately, most of the time I end up with a load of 'wasted' votes, that I will never get to use by the end of the day.

So, my question is how do you manage your votes? Do you, just like me, try to save up as many votes as you can in anticipation of coming across that exceptional node? Or are you always trying to use up all of your votes to at least get a few extra XP for yourself?

"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels." -- Confession of Faith

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: on wasted votes ...
by particle (Vicar) on Apr 18, 2002 at 19:33 UTC
    i said this ages ago, and i'll say it again:
    nevermind the XP, remember the experience.
    only vote on what's worth it. a 'wasted' vote is a non-vote on a node that deserves a vote. a vote isn't wasted if there's nothing worth voting on.

    i've also commented on the idea that votes are 'wasted' on Anonymous Monks. people believe that nobody is getting xp for the vote they submitted, so they hold back. this is bad for the community, because anonymous posts can contain good information that might never make it to Best Nodes because it was posted anonymously.

    don't vote on people, vote on nodes. vote on ideas. vote on code.

    ~Particle ;

(elbie): on wasted votes ...
by elbie (Curate) on Apr 18, 2002 at 19:48 UTC
    There's no reason to be saving up your votes. Granted, particle makes a good point. Don't vote for the sake of voting. Vote because the node struck you as good or bad.

    If the reason you're saving your votes is in case you're waiting for a really good node, don't fret too much. First off, you can only vote on it once, and unless there is a really long discussion spawned, you're not going to use up that many votes. Especially considering that you've got a few to spare.

    Secondly, even if you did run out of votes, if you think the node deserves it, add the node to your nodelet and come back to it the next day. You'll have a fresh supply of juicy votes to share tomorrow.


Re: on wasted votes ...
by gmax (Abbot) on Apr 19, 2002 at 09:08 UTC
    As particle said, nobody is forcing you to use all your votes. However, if you really must, you can spend some of them on tutorials and reviews. A few weeks ago, somebody sent a good piece of advice (Overlooked Gems). Have a look at it.
    Or you can go to other monks home nodes (start with the saints, but don't forget pontiffs, bishops, abbots and so on) and consider the nodes that they propose.
    Or just use the links after my signature :)

    And remember, votes are not wasted when you don't use them. Votes are wasted when you cast them just for the sake of it, instead of applying your judgement.

    To complete belg4mit's quest, this is the node about Amen. And also its parent thread is a great source of meditation.
     _  _ _  _  
    (_|| | |(_|><
Re: on wasted votes ...
by Russ (Deacon) on Apr 18, 2002 at 22:14 UTC
    In addition to particle's comments, remember that a node's reputation is based on the ratio of VotesSpentOnIt / TotalVotesCast. Consider this: if you use up your "extra" votes on nodes that didn't really deserve the votes, you are diluting the effectiveness of your own votes. They will count less because there are more total votes "out there."

    I think one of the responsibilities of a senior-level monk is to help make the voting system work better (even if it means you get less personal benefit)... ;-)

    Keep voting for the truly worthy posts. Sounds like you're doing fine... :-)

    Brainbench 'Most Valuable Professional' for Perl

Re: on wasted votes ...
by silent11 (Vicar) on Apr 18, 2002 at 21:12 UTC
    There's no rule in the monastary that says that you have to use all your votes everyday. I don't. Some days I run out of votes in one thread.
    If you must get rid of that nagging "You have n votes left today." in your XP nodelet then go to the random node generator. You'd be surprised just how long the refresh button can keep your attention.
Re: on wasted votes ...
by pepik_knize (Scribe) on Apr 18, 2002 at 22:58 UTC
    As a brand-spankin' new novice, is there a node that explains better the philosophy of voting? I've read and reread the Voting/Experience System node, and it doesn't say much. Also, I've heard of these 'radio buttons', but don't see them. I'm supposed to have 5 votes now, but I can't figure out how to use them. Maybe they'll arrive tomorrow?

    PS I was trying to link to the V/XPS node above, but couldn't get it to go. How do I do that?
      Heya and welcome to the Monastery pepik_knize! About the 5 votes that you have - since you are Lvl 2, you will have them tomorrow... it works after 24hrs after you gain the level (I believe..). If I'm wrong.. feel free to correct me. :) To link to the Voting/Experience System - there are a couple of different ways to do that:
      • [Voting/Experience System] <LI[|Voting/Experience System]
      Also, for more information - check out turnstep's homenode (quite helpful). For all sorts of nodes on voting and how to vote and how other monks feel about voting - check out Super Search!

      - Moon
      There is an elegant node somewhere and it eludes my search efforts right now. However since reading it, it always pops into mind when I am about to cast a vote. It was something to the effect of "++ where you would say Amen". That's it. I use -- for rare instances when needing to (contribute to) correct(ing) something. Not for casual use.

      perl -pe "s/\b;([mnst])/'\1/mg"

Re: on wasted votes ...
by samgold (Scribe) on Apr 19, 2002 at 04:34 UTC
    I wish I had votes to spend. ;0) I am still an initiate with only one more xp to become a novice. I have noticed that you can lose xp what happens if you become a novice and then lose xp? Do you go back to being an initiate?

      good question. i've never heard of it happening, but as far as i understand, votes are handed out once a day. so if you are a novice, lose enough xp to make you initiate again, and don't regain it before the next time votes are distributed--you will lose your votes. more than likely (if you're not trolling,) you'll post something ++ worthy, and become a novice again the next day.

      ~Particle ;

Re: on wasted votes ...
by thelenm (Vicar) on Apr 19, 2002 at 20:23 UTC
    I'm relatively new here, and haven't had voting privileges for too long, but here's what I do:

    What I usually do is log on sometime in the mid-morning and read all the new nodes I'm interested in. I give out ++ for helpfulness, cleverness, clarity, humor, and things that make me go "Wow". I like to give out ++ votes. I try to spend all my votes at once. I don't save any for later in the day, because I usually only read Perl Monks once a day for an hour or so. (I used to spend more time, but then I found myself not getting any work done :-)

    I hate to give out -- votes. I would rather give out ++ votes. But I will downvote a node if I feel it's misleading, belittling, or a question that could easily be answered by RTFM. I think I might have given out one or two downvotes, ever. It's rare.

    BTW, ++vladb. This is an interesting discussion. Thanks for bringing it up!

Re: on wasted votes ...
by DaWolf (Curate) on Apr 24, 2002 at 02:44 UTC
    I think a "really exceptional node" is not an easy thing to find. Besides reading some guide on voting, I prefer to follow my own good sense.

    I think one thing that is really important is to remember that this site is a learning tool not only for advanced programmers but for the beginners too - they are the future advanced programmers. I often see people downvoting a beginner-type of post. I, on the other hand, like to upvote'em when I feel that the guy is really working hard to solve his problem and is like "half-way from the solution". Have you guys ever thought about this?

    So, my voting guidelines would be something like this:
    • Is the author asking an interesting question?
    • Is he really trying to solve his problems or did he just came here to find a ready solution?
    • If there is code on his post, is there any terrible logic error on it?
    • The code is well posted? Can I understand it?
    • Is he asking his question in a clear, respectful way?
    • Did his post generated a good, healthy and clever discussion?
    I think you shouldn't keep saving your posts. I think you should be less selective - in the good meaning of the term - in your voting choose.

    Just my personal thoughts on this matter.


    Er Galvo Abbott
    a.k.a. Lobo, DaWolf

    P.S. : Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. My english is terrible now, because I'm a foreigner and I'm sleepy. : )
Re: on wasted votes ...
by agentv (Friar) on Apr 22, 2002 at 01:33 UTC

    So, my question is how do you manage your votes? Do you, just like me, try to save up as many votes as you can in anticipation of coming across that exceptional node? Or are you always trying to use up all of your votes to at least get a few extra XP for yourself?

    ...this is an excellent thread (from my perspective) because I am fascinated by communities that have built-in mechanisms for natural ordering.

    Not being of enough stature here yet to participate in the voting, I can only speculate about the impact of votes here, but I must say that I've been thinking about it for some time.

    A number of people here seem to feel reluctant to cast down votes, and I myself am typically inclined to accentuate the positive. But in most systems, it's important to provide some markers on the negative side of the scale so as to provide a more accurate picture of the continuum.

    I would suggest that it could be important to cast at least one negative vote each day, even as you cast positive votes. I believe that with a sufficiently large population, the correct answer will come from the sum of all rating information.

    But, it's just a theory I have.

    What thoughts are out there about schemes that weight voting, such as counting votes more heavily from citizens with greater stature, and perhaps charging double for negative votes?

    ---v that I've had a chance to participate in the voting for some time, I find that I'm still not using any negative votes on most days.

      I have discovered that I have time to race in here, read for about 20 minutes and grant an up vote to any nodes that I feel contribute to the information worth of the site.

      I find that I'm not usually here for long enough to be stingy with my votes. I have about enough time to search for information that's interesting or useful to me, and read a few things serendipitously, and then I have to go.

      I think that a useful extension to the voting system would be to allow a person to cast multiple votes for a node. We are given a finite number of votes each day, but it would be nice to spend them en masse for a really good (or really bad) node. Perhaps the scheme would still have to contain a built-in natural limit (such as a maximum of three or five votes for a given node).


Re: on wasted votes ...
by iamnothing (Friar) on Apr 25, 2002 at 15:38 UTC
    I talked about this quite a while back in another node that I'm too lazy to look up. Since I'm at work when I visit the Monostary, I rarely have a lot of time to spend, and so I rarely use my votes. Hence my being a Monk for around a year now.

    I've found that I often use my votes (when I have time) in the Code sections. I love the idea of giving people feedback on code that they contribute, even if that feedback is simply an upvote pat on the back.

    The other place that I like to spend votes is in the poetry and obfuscation sections. Whereas the coding section provides a functional set of tools for others to learn from and improve, the poetry and obfuscation sections are artistically based. And being a former theatre graduate, I like that.

    Every now and again, I'll come across an exceptional node (or more often, and exceptional point made in a node), but those times are a lot more rare than the creativity in other sections.

    But, then, if I'd been spending all my votes everyday, I'd be a little bit higher than a monk. But it's been, and continues to be, a great experience.

Re: on wasted votes ...
by Molt (Chaplain) on Apr 24, 2002 at 15:11 UTC

    I try to totally ignore my vote quota as much as possible. If I see a node which makes me nod agreement, even better makes me see the light, or makes me engage my mind in thoughtfulness I'll hit the '++' button before the silly smile has faded.

    If I see a node which makes me wince and go 'Ugh.. bad advice' I have no real qualms about hitting that '--', often ++'ing the replies correcting it too.

    What when I run out of votes and still want to vote? I note the ID's down and come back. Today I've had a lazy day and as a result have trudged through a lot of very old nodes, and as a result I'm out of votes. Tomorrow I shall do (at last count..) seven votes on nodes. The day after I may not have time to really read too much so won't spend all my votes, or maybe even any.

    Vote when you want to, don't think you have to.

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