Re: Re: Perl myths ?

Some recent trends away from Perl are due to cleanliness of the language (well, I don't get this -- I love Perl -- but anyway).... I predict the Python and Ruby hype machine to be well countered by Perl6, though --- if Perl6 can get out fast enough Python and Ruby will never attain "peer" status.

I'm gonna risk the downvotes here.

While Perl 6 will clean up some of the ugliness of Perl's syntax (no more @{$array_ref} stuff, etc.). It seems to me that they are adding alot of new operators, and in particular Unicode operators ( see Peir's summary about this here ). Maybe when the dust settles this will be a good thing, and clarity will reign supreme. But I am very wary of languages with weird character sets, I mean if this was a good thing, we would all be programming in APL.

Now I love Perl as much as the next monk, but I also realize why other people don't like it. And I see too that when it comes to clarity of code, Python is really really nice. They don't call it "executable pseudo-code" for nothing. But you can't do the same 3-weeks-worth-of-work-in-one-line scripts you can do in Perl in Python, its just not that "expressive".

Don't be worried about Perl's future. I'd be worried if you were a fan of Forth or Pascal or Cobol. Perl?

Pascal, maybe, but I would hesitate to call COBOL dead. Yeah it sucks as a language, and I highly doubt that there are any new COBOL projects in the works, but there is ALOT of existing COBOL code out there, and that code needs to be maintained. Just look at the work on COBOL.NET (by Fugitsu) to see that its not dead (old, crochety and with a severe case of senility maybe, but not dead).

As for FORTH, its certainly not a widely used langauge, but its also not dead. You would be hard pressed to find another language that can fit into some of the places where FORTH can, its tiny and endlessly extensible. It tiny footprint and fast execution speed make it ideal for small embedded microproccessors with limited memory, you can't say that about Perl/Python/Ruby/etc. Weird, but not dead, its a niche language thats all.

Perl is still alive and well for sure, and PHP (IMO) is just an ugly stepchild of Perl. But PHP is a niche language like FORTH, its ideally suited to small to medium-scale web applications. Perl on the other hand is more of a "general purpose" programming language. PHP may edge it out of the "slap-a-quick-web-site-together" market one day, but who cares, there is still alot of other places Perl lives and works in that PHP will likely never go.

Perl is Dead! Long Live Perl!

-stvn

Comment on Re: Re: Perl myths ?

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•Re: Re: Re: Perl myths ? by merlyn (Sage) on Feb 22, 2004 at 18:25 UTC
As for FORTH, its certainly not a widely used langauge, but its also not dead. Every single modern Apple (PPC) and Sparc machine contains the "open boot" ROM, and that's programmed in (and extended with) FORTH. If that's "not a widely used language", I wonder what you consider "widely used". -- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker Be sure to read my standard disclaimer if this is a reply.	[reply]
Re: •Re: Re: Re: Perl myths ? by stvn (Monsignor) on Feb 22, 2004 at 19:42 UTC
I stand corrected! I did not know this, and here I had thought it was just used to control large telescopes, the Canon Cat and Lego Robots :) -stvn	[reply]
Re^3: Perl myths ? by adrianh (Chancellor) on Feb 22, 2004 at 22:22 UTC
... highly doubt that there are any new COBOL projects in the works Then prepared to be surprised ;-) There are a heck of a lot of new COBOL work in the works. I know a couple of people doing COBOL development work and they're continually in work - a lot of it new code (and they're paid very well for it too). According to this little list of COBOL facts Gartner are predicting that 15% of new code in 2005 will be in COBOL.	[reply]
Re: Re^3: Perl myths ? by stvn (Monsignor) on Feb 23, 2004 at 00:37 UTC
Wow, no doubt Grace Hopper is smiling in her grave right now. While I guess I am really not that surprised, but I am afraid,.... very afraid ; P -stvn	[reply]
Re: Re^3: Perl myths ? by jdtoronto (Prior) on Feb 23, 2004 at 04:36 UTC
Be very surprised! Certainly within the financial services sector thorughout the western world COBOL is still king. I can think of several Cobol shops I know of that have upwards of 50 programmers each. One, with over 120 runs a COBOL school of their own to take programmers and train them in COBOL. One friend of mine, a project manager working on large COBOL jobs, was asked by a mutual friend who is a C++ project manager why he was earning so much. The answer was pretty obvious, "I am in demand, you are just one of very very many". jdtoronto	[reply]
Re^5: Perl myths ? by adrianh (Chancellor) on Feb 23, 2004 at 10:20 UTC
The answer was pretty obvious, "I am in demand, you are just one of very very many". Indeed. Some more stats from Gartner: There are over 90,000 COBOL programmers in North America in 2002. Over the next four years there will be a 13% decrease in their number due to retirement and death. There's more COBOL work than ever, and fewer skilled people. If you're comfortable working in the industries where COBOL is dominant then it's an excellent career choice. It's not going away any time soon.	[reply]