Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
Keep It Simple, Stupid

Re^2: New Section: Obfu Art Gallery?

by tye (Sage)
on Apr 21, 2004 at 01:59 UTC ( #346852=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re: New Section: Obfu Art Gallery?
in thread New Section: Obfu Art Gallery?

Yes, why haven't you implemented it? It's so trivial! When you finish it, send me the URL. Thanks. If it doesn't get done, then you have none to blame but yourself.

- tye        

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Re^2: New Section: Obfu Art Gallery?
by jacques (Priest) on Apr 21, 2004 at 02:09 UTC
    {grin} I knew you would reply. Maybe it would be best if you explain why this would be hard and time consuming, since people often ask for new sections. Can't you just add an extra link to the top. And then start collecting the art? I am sure there's more to it than that. What would creating a new section entail?

      Implement it, and you'll have a much better idea. (:

      It took me several hours to turn the Perl News section into a place people could post to. And it already existed as a section and I didn't even implement much of what is implemented for other sections (you can't "approve" news items, for example).

      There are a ton of features involved with 'sections'. Several of the sections are nearly identical, several are less so. Lots of the common code is factored out. Some of it could be factored out more effectively. But there are still a ton of entries to make and things to tie together and the process is rather time consuming because you're patching a live site without an automated 'roll out' system. And this stuff is harder to do from where I'm typing this node (giving my kids their bath) both in terms of display/keyboard issues and (more so) in terms of concentration.

      And the proposed section (as I already covered) isn't like any existing PerlMonks section.

      If you just want another 'page', not really a 'section', then it'll be a lot less work to 'do it yourself', either here (your home node or such) or elsewhere.

      But my objection has more to do with continuity of design for the site. While I'm not volunteering to do this work, bolting on something as specific as this, well... as proposed, it would fit in like something bolted onto the side. I'd like to have it, though.

      And if I wanted it more, I'd put it on my home node (or just use the root node of this thread for it) and encourage people to /msg me suggestions for additions. And as time went on I'd adjust how the list is broken up into sublists, etc. It'd still be bolted onto the side, and it would get done.

      And if it got fairly big and I wanted to let people vote on things, then I'd write a little web app and move the current list into some kind of database.

      There aren't any fields in the current PM database for 'reputation as obfu art'. And if someone wanted that information in the PM database, I'd tell them to come up with a more general design so we could do more 'best of' pages... And then I'd tell them to implement it off of PM (where it will be much less work for them to do and they won't have to be much bothered by my or other gods' ideas of 'good design' or my frequent 'lack of time' for such).

      We've been trying for years to get PM development improved and moving along. We've made a lot of improvements and we've also taken a lot of steps that didn't do much good (at least not yet). So every once in a while we get a flurry of changes. The backlog of things that really should be done is huge.

      I've taken a bit of flack for my lack of progress in some things over the years. As I see it, I often get this flack because I'm often the one doing the most (as little as it is). So I've become pretty non-apologetic about it.

      The site limps along rather successfully. About the best way to ruin the experience for yourself is to get hung up on something you want changed or (the lack of) the process of change.

      - tye        

        We've been trying for years to get PM development improved and moving along. We've made a lot of improvements and we've also taken a lot of steps that didn't do much good (at least not yet). So every once in a while we get a flurry of changes. The backlog of things that really should be done is huge.

        I think this is somewhat of a vicious cycle. Unless there are Gods that have the time and the inclination to actively shepherd pmdev I think its inevitable that new code comes in flurrys and that we will end up with a backlog. Developing to unstated guidelines (code quality expectations), with minimal (constructive) feedback is as you know extremely difficult and can be quite frustrating for the people involved. If you post a patch and then never hear anything, or observe that of the posted patches only a small number have had any form of feedback you quickly become disenchanted with the process and eventually give up. As for debating code in pmdev why bother if the perception is that the odds are such that regardless of the debate the code won't get applied anyway?

        Of all the things that have been done to pmdev the only one that I think will have any real effect and alas also one I've not seen yet attempted is the addition of a god that dedicates themselve solely to dev related issues. Such a god should not participate in other godly duties, and should step down when/if they can no longer dedicate the required time.

        My position on all this is well known to you, and im not replying to rehash the CB chat we had recently. I recognize that the gods have lives too, and cannot currently respond to patches as they might wish. However I think its important to realize that this situation is fixable by finding the right person or people to manage pmdev who do have the time and inclination.

        Anyway. Ill keep posting patches regardless I suppose. At the very least nobody on the site can tell me to post a patch when i bitch about stuff. :-)


          First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
          -- Gandhi

Log In?

What's my password?
Create A New User
Node Status?
node history
Node Type: note [id://346852]
and the web crawler heard nothing...

How do I use this? | Other CB clients
Other Users?
Others wandering the Monastery: (9)
As of 2020-04-01 09:28 GMT
Find Nodes?
    Voting Booth?
    To "Disagree to disagree" means to:

    Results (187 votes). Check out past polls.