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Downvoting & XP

by perlinux (Deacon)
on May 04, 2004 at 09:31 UTC ( [id://350270]=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

This is a question about XP: this is not a real experience, but I want to have only an idea about PM rules.
I was romping around the monastery, and in The Worst Nodes I've found a user with a great number of downvoted nodes. I've seen his homenode, he had written many nodes downvoted but his XP is: "none earned". It is possible to have a negative XP after writing downvoted nodes? There's a limit (in nodes or in negativity) for this behaviour?
And again about XP: what really happens when a node is reaped?
Thanks for your clarifications

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Downvoting & XP
by blue_cowdawg (Monsignor) on May 04, 2004 at 12:56 UTC

        I've found a user with a great number of downvoted nodes.

    I hadn't looked at The Worst Nodes in a long time. Without applying any scientific method in particular I've noticed that one particular user seems to have garnered the lion's share of "worst nodes" across several category of worst nodes. Why that is you'd have to ask the monk themself. If you dare.

    What makes a node go bad? (or the secret life of the criminal node)

    There are in my observation of how things work here at the Monastery many ways that a node can be downvoted. Some of these are as follows:
    1. Homework Nodes

      These seem to have a equal chance of getting upvoted or downvoted. Some folks in monkdom get hot under the collar when they see a posting that is obviously a homework assignment where the OP did not even attempt to work it out on their own. If you are going to post your homework at least take a stab at working it out and asking intelligent questions.

    2. FLAMES!

      Wheather you are posting here on PM or Usenet or <insert mailing list here>, starting a flame war or flaming someone is just a bad idea. There are some targets out there worth flaming such as The Evil Empire or Son of Evil Empire but even then you need to be thoughtful in your approach. It's just good manners. Didn't your mother ever tell you "keep your words sweet... you may have to eat them some day."

    3. Just generally aggravating folks

      jeffa wrote a wonderful node some time ago entitled How (Not) To Ask A Question where the ways of annoying people on the PM site are layed out. Break one of those rules and you have a good chance of making the big leagues if that is your ambition in life.

    4. Altered states of conciousness

      Back in the Usenet days (you know... in the days of UUCP and 1200Baud modems.... ah forget it.. I'm showing my age again...) there was a wonderful book published called The Zen and the Art of the Internet that I wish was required reading for anyone taking to the Internet in search of a good time and/or kowledge. Before you got to buy a modem at the computer store you should have to take a test and... oh... I'm ranting again...

      In the above cited book there is a list of rules concerning when you should post and when you shouldn't post. Some reasons not to post are:

      • When you are angry
      • When you are high
      • when you are tired and cranky
      If you break that rule you can get downvoted fast. I will confess that I have broken all of those rules at one time or another (sometimes multiple at once) and the couple of times I did it here I got what I deserved and got downvoted.

    5. "Me Too" posts

      I know those get me cranky. When all a node says is "I have to agree with "that monk" without any amplification or value added. Why use up bandwidth for that? We all could with some effort write a 'bot to do that for us! ARRRGH!

    6. Have your stuff together

      An excellent off-site reference on how to ask questions in any forum, not just PM is [mailto://esr@thyrsus.org|Eric Steven Raymond's] missive How to Ask Questions The Smart Way. If you follow those guidelines you are less likely (not a guarantee) to be downvoted. Looking back at some of my less than successful nodes I can say the common denominator has been when I hadn't fully thought out my question and framed it with all the facts. Sort of the on-line version of the addage "Engage Brain Before Putting Mouth In Gear."

      I've never understood why people think that How to Ask Questions The Smart Way is good advice to give people.

      Yes, I know very well that anyone who takes the advice there will probably benefit from the advice.

      However the way that that advice is presented virtually guarantees that people who need the advice will not actually read it. Furthermore the tone of the article, from start to finish, stands out as a canonical example of how not to give advice. (Unless your goal in giving advice is to be left feeling justified in proceeding to flame people for not taking your advice.)

      Those flaws far outweigh the content for me.

            I've never understood why people think that How to Ask Questions The Smart Way is good advice to give people.

        You have an alternative? In spite of editorial issues I still think the content is valid. Yes, it could be stated nicer, but it still makes valid points.

    A reply falls below the community's threshold of quality. You may see it by logging in.
Re: Downvoting & XP
by davido (Cardinal) on May 04, 2004 at 15:43 UTC
    Once in awhile someone comes along hell-bent on showing the world that he/she is the master-coder, and that the rest of the world "just doesn't get it" because he's so much more brilliant than them.

    That person will invariable post many tidbits of logic and brilliance that happen to carry with them buggy code, incomplete logic, personal attacks, and thick-headedness whereby the person in question refuses to back off from a know-it-all stance long enough to learn something.

    Since the Monastery is run and inhabited by volunteers and people who generally carry a feeling of community between them, making this a micro-society, such displays are seen as anti-social behavior, arrogant, and in most cases, unwarranted.

    The end result is that the loose-canon individual ends up posting a lot of nodes that irritate everyone else to the point that they start downvoting in mass. A few "worst nodes" are born. The individual then becomes really mad about it, whines about the XP system, and begins trolling with additional nodes that are likely to draw negative votes just to prove the XP system's irrelevancy. After all, how could such a brilliant mind post lots of nodes and still be at zero XP?

    What these sorts of individuals usually fail to ever realize is that the deep-negative nodes really were bad news in the first place, and that there is still plenty of opportunity to learn something. I dare to guess that folks in the top-ten Saints in Our Book learn something new at this site every day, and do so whilst (for the most part), avoiding the sorts of attitudes and behavior that will cause them to be scorned by the rest of the PerlMonks.

    I don't know which PerlMonk in particular you are speaking of, but I can think of a number of them over the course of the eight months I've been here who have displayed such behaviors. Some never tire of it. Some lob a bomb once in awhile and then retreat for months at a time. Others seem to take pleasure in being a constant irritant; a thorn. And others seem completely oblivious to the reason they've fallen into such a state of ill repute.

    The best advice I can give is to simply leave such individuals alone. I need to remind myself that too; our disapproval fuels their fire. Let the flame wars end. The problem with this, however, is the fact that if a bad node is really left to stand undiscussed, uncontested, it might turn up in a super-search by an unsuspecting new Monk who will then waste time and effort in learning a bad habbit. That's the danger of leaving a lousy node alone to the point that nobody responds to it. That being the case, let come the responses to such nodes, but keep emotion out of it. And above all, be willing to forgive and forget! Many people do eventually learn, and do change.

    Thus endeth my rant. ;)


    Dave

Re: Downvoting & XP
by mpolo (Chaplain) on May 04, 2004 at 10:19 UTC

    A negative total is certainly possible -- look at antivroom or linex, for instance. I take it that the user in question has managed a very careful balancing act between bad and good nodes so as to arrive at zero.

    If a node is reaped, He who must not be named gets any additional negative votes after the reapage.

Re: Downvoting & XP
by EdwardG (Vicar) on May 04, 2004 at 10:21 UTC

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