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in reply to Downvoting & XP
I've found a user with a great number of downvoted nodes.
I hadn't looked at The Worst Nodes in a long time. Without
applying any scientific method in particular I've noticed
that one particular user seems to have
garnered the lion's share of "worst nodes"
across several category of worst nodes. Why that is you'd
have to ask the monk themself. If you dare.
What makes a node go bad? (or the secret life of the criminal node)
There are in my observation of how things work here at the
Monastery many ways that a node can be downvoted.
Some of these are as follows:
Homework Nodes
These seem to have a equal chance of getting upvoted
or downvoted. Some folks in monkdom get hot under the collar
when they see a posting that is obviously a homework
assignment where the OP did not even attempt to work it
out on their own. If you are going to post your homework
at least take a stab at working it out and asking
intelligent questions.
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FLAMES!
Wheather you are posting here on PM or Usenet or
<insert mailing list here>, starting a flame war or
flaming someone is just a bad idea. There are some targets
out there worth flaming such as
The Evil Empire or
Son of Evil Empire but even then you
need to be thoughtful in your approach. It's just good
manners. Didn't your mother ever tell you "keep your
words sweet... you may have to eat them some day."
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Just generally aggravating folks
jeffa wrote a wonderful node some time ago entitled
How (Not) To Ask A Question where the ways of annoying
people on the PM site are layed out. Break one of those
rules and you have a good chance of making the
big leagues if that is your ambition in life.
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Altered states of conciousness
Back in the Usenet days (you know... in the days of UUCP
and 1200Baud modems.... ah forget it.. I'm showing my
age again...) there was a wonderful book published
called The Zen and the Art of the Internet that I wish was required reading for anyone
taking to the Internet in search of a good time and/or
kowledge. Before you got to buy a modem at the computer
store you should have to take a test and... oh... I'm
ranting again...
In the above cited book there is a list of rules
concerning when you should post and when you shouldn't
post. Some reasons not to post are:
- When you are angry
- When you are high
- when you are tired and cranky
If you break that rule you can get downvoted fast. I will
confess that I have broken all of those rules at one
time or another (sometimes multiple at once) and the
couple of times I did it here I got what I deserved and
got downvoted.
"Me Too" posts
I know those get me cranky. When all a node says is
"I have to agree with "that monk" without
any amplification or value added. Why use up bandwidth
for that? We all could with some effort write a
'bot to do that for us! ARRRGH!
Have your stuff together
An excellent off-site reference on how to ask
questions in any forum, not just PM is
[mailto://esr@thyrsus.org|Eric Steven Raymond's] missive
How to Ask Questions The Smart Way. If you follow those guidelines
you are less likely (not a guarantee) to be downvoted.
Looking back at some of my less than successful nodes I can
say the common denominator has been when I hadn't fully
thought out my question and framed it with all the facts.
Sort of the on-line version of the addage "Engage
Brain Before Putting Mouth In Gear."
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Re: Re: Downvoting & XP
by tilly (Archbishop) on May 04, 2004 at 16:42 UTC
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I've never understood why people think that How to Ask Questions The Smart Way is good advice to give people.
Yes, I know very well that anyone who takes the advice there will probably benefit from the advice.
However the way that that advice is presented virtually guarantees that people who need the advice will not actually read it. Furthermore the tone of the article, from start to finish, stands out as a canonical example of how not to give advice. (Unless your goal in giving advice is to be left feeling justified in proceeding to flame people for not taking your advice.)
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Plenty of alternatives exist that cover some of the same material. You linked to one on this site. Another is How to get the most of your question from the monks.
It would be easy to rewrite ESR's piece to say the same things and not offend. The problem is that without ESR's name recognition, it is hard to get it out there, and I'm sure that ESR doesn't see the issue and so wouldn't accept the suggested update.
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Re: Re: Downvoting & XP
by Wassercrats (Initiate) on May 04, 2004 at 23:28 UTC
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I've noticed that one particular user seems to have garnered the lion's share of "worst nodes" across several category of worst nodes. Why that is you'd have to ask the monk them self. If you dare.
Oh, didn't he ask yet? Well, as long as I'm here, I have the lion's share because I'm not a kiss-ass school kid who wants people to up-vote him so he'll look smart. I'm not as young, and therefore not as liberal as the average person here, and I'm also not partial to Perl related stuff just because I program in Perl, which unfortunately goes against human nature, so it's understandable that my Boycott O'Reilly thread would be downvoted here.
All the college students who think they know how programming in the real world works and who've down-voted me should take their school books and their merlyn posters and their rock and roll and lock them in a trunk in their parent's attic and join the YMCA and make men of yourselves.
Young man, are you listening to me?
I said, young man, what do you want to be?
I said, young man, you can make real your dreams.
But you got to know this one thing!
No man does it all by himself.
I said, young man, put your pride on the shelf,
And just go there, to the y.m.c.a.
I'm sure they can help you today.
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*Deep breath*
Wassercrats,
Be at peace, calm, passive. I'm fairly sure that no one wants anybody to be some kind of rubber-stamped boring programmer here. On the other hand, you sometimes seem to revel in your ability to irritate people by venting spleen about them and their opinions. People do not generally downvote a post because they do not personally agree with the opinions there, they do so because of the way that the post is put forward or the fact that it contains personal attacks. You do seem to have a habit of attacking or criticizing people who disagree with you.
Disputation and argument are good - the hottest fire makes the strongest steel - but when this breaks down into abuse or when an opinion or point is asserted with no underlying argument, the alloy is ruined.
If you wish to be a maverick, and express radical opinions or those which you know will make you unpopular, or do so in what appears to be a rude way, you cannot very well then turn around and expect people not to do the same in return by downvoting you; As I have regretfully done here.
Elgon
FWIW - I did not study a computer science related subject at University, I studied Chemistry and French, but I have been programming since I was about nine and now spend a great deal of my time fixing broken code in "the real world". Much of what is discussed here is a tad academic for most of the coding/fixing I do, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea to pay attention.
"Stercus! Dixit Pooh. Eeyore, missilis lux navigii heffalumporum iaculas. Piglet, mecum ad cellae migratae secundae concurras."
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