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Choosing a home node

by jonnyfolk (Vicar)
on May 18, 2004 at 04:49 UTC ( [id://354177]=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

When you click your own username at the top of the page you are taken to your home node, and there you have the choice either to change your user settings, or to edit your user information.

Since I never go to my home node to learn more about myself (well ok, only after exceptionally heavy nights out!) I thought it might be handy to have the possibility to select in the user settings the page that you would like to open when you click your username - home node, edit or user settings. When the chosen page opens, the links for the other two pages are available in similar fashion to the way it works now.

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Choosing a home node
by Anonymous Monk on May 18, 2004 at 06:09 UTC

    Direct reply: You could add the 2 links to user settings and homenode editting to your browser bookmarks, you could create a local html page with links to all your favorite/frequently used links, or you could enable the personal nodelet and adds links there.

    Indirect reply, aimed to all monks:

    I don't mean to sound negative here, so if it sounds that way, just remember that is not my intention ;) This is a plea to everyone really. I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, this is just a general pattern I am pointing out. I myself have been guilty of this, as it is easy to get carried away with ideas sometimes. There used to be a time where tweaking the site to fit each person's level of satisfaction meant introducing major new features; things that many monks wanted to see implemented as it would change the way the site worked. As time has gone on and the large changes have been implemented, an increasing number of monks have begun requesting little features that don't change much at all.

    I know that programmers are defined to be of the lazy type, but really, what is the point of changing something to save one or two lousy mouse clicks? We used to add useful features that actually modified the way things work. Now we've come to the point of nitpicking the small details that are already implemented, but aren't done the exact way every single monk wants to see them.

    Please, before submitting a new feature request, take into consideration the following key points:

    • Is this new change worth the time and effort that will be required in order to implement it? If it's something that is already there, just one click away, chances are the answer is 'no'.
    • Is this change likely to be appreciated by a majority of the monks, or is it something so small and insignificant that only a few will want the change implemented.
    • Is the change likely to take up a significant amount of additional server resources that is just not worth the outcome of the change?
    • Is the feature something that should actually be implemented directly into the website interface, or would it be more ideal to create an external client?

    Basically all I am saying is that each individual needs to draw a line between "I think we should implement this because it will be useful to the majority of users" and "I want this implemented just because I want it.". Personalization is nice, but it is extremely easy sometimes to get carried away.

      Is this new change worth the time and effort that will be required in order to implement it? If it's something that is already there, just one click away, chances are the answer is 'no'.

      It was to me when I wrote it. The fact that the gods and some of pmdev didnt personally see the use of it was an obstacle. As was that apparently my implementation was too full featured for the reviewers and as such i have been recommended to dumb-it-down for pretty much no good reason ive heard or seen.

      Is this change likely to be appreciated by a majority of the monks, or is it something so small and insignificant that only a few will want the change implemented.

      I have two issues with this point. First off _unless_ the code affects system stability this argument is moot. An added feature appreciated by a minority that is produced by that minority that doesnt affect the majority is no business of the majority. Second I would say that far far far more people will appreciate features of this site that you or I wont. I personally don't like the personal nodelet that much but I wouldn't argue it be removed. In fact Ive posted signifigant patches to it to make your browsing experience more enjoyable. The fact that those patches as well haven't been applied is a matter you should address to the gods.

      Is the change likely to take up a significant amount of additional server resources that is just not worth the outcome of the change?

      Until the code is put into play and profiled any answer to this question is pure conjecture and smacks of premature optimisation (maybe that feature will be too slow, cool lets optimize and leave it out!)

      Is the feature something that should actually be implemented directly into the website interface, or would it be more ideal to create an external client

      IMO its better implemented in PM. That way a single implementation is available to all, regardless as to how clued into the site they are.

      Regarding your points about feature requests and etc. My attitude is that if you want a feature and are willing to do the work to implement it and test it then petition to join pmdev or send a msg to any of the other pmdevils. If we think you are up to the task well let you join pmdev and put together a solution. Unless the feature compromised the sites integrity then the feature should stay. Fook, weve _still_ got the stupid tick tock nodelet. (PS: the 'we' in this para represents the gods and pmdevils. A recommendation by a pmdevil to the gods about a person joining pmdev is usually respected, but naturally the gods are the final deciders.)

      The real trick is convincing a god that they should apply code that they personally dont want. And by that I dont mean they dont want it included, I mean that if they have no personal desire for the feature then it can be difficult to get them to apply the patch even when it works and is tested. But thats life.


      ---
      demerphq

        First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
        -- Gandhi


      Sorry, Mr Anonymous Monk, but I did get the impression that your post was a tad negative, even though you did not mean it as such.

      If you actually look at the OP there was no request for work to be done, or for implementation of any kind. I merely took advantage of the Perl Discussion page to open a discussion. I never said it was a big thing, or a significant thing, (though when the server is having one of it's bad-hair-days anything that reduces the number of clicks is a blessing), I just said that I would find it nice. If there is some agreement in the responses and it is seen by a Monk-Who-Is-Holier-Than-I, for example, who thinks "that's something I would prefer to do rather than the boring stuff I ought to do" then I may get lucky. Otherwise it doesn't disturb me in the least.

      Either way I don't think it is up to A Monk Who Posts Anonymously to lay down the law as to what is to be posted and what is not...

        I did get the impression that your post was a tad negative

        I can understand why you feel that way, considering that his post was a reply to your Discussion. But in all fairness, he did address -- in bold letters, no less -- that part to all Monks. I don't feel it was overly negative, and since it has a positive rating, it seems many other Monks agree with me. I see it as a simple reminder that we consider our feature requests more carefully, and consider the tradeoff between utility and cost.

        there was no request for work to be done, or for implementation of any kind

        If your original post wasn't actually a feature request, it sure looks like one. Features require work to be implemented. If this wasn't your intention, you could have made it a lot more clear in the original post.

        Either way I don't think it is up to A Monk Who Posts Anonymously to lay down the law as to what is to be posted and what is not

        By the same token, I don't think it's up to an individual Registered Monk to decide that either. During my time at the Monastery, I have seen many high-quality posts from our good friend Anonymous Monk. I value his opinion. I know some people take advantage of the anonymity, but I honestly think it's more good than bad. Scorn the Anonymous Monk at your own peril.

        Update: just for the record, I upvoted your original post, but downvoted your reply to AnonyMonk. I figured I should give you some feedback as to why I downvoted this node.

        A reply falls below the community's threshold of quality. You may see it by logging in.
Re: Choosing a home node
by demerphq (Chancellor) on May 18, 2004 at 18:08 UTC

    A while back I implemented a set of patches that have (unfortunately) caused some friction with the gods. Part of this set of patches was a solution to the very problem you are discussing. I called it "Titlebar Settings" and it was designed specifically to allow users to cause such special links to appear with the normal title bar links, and to allow them to modify the order, presentation, and styling of the links ina variety of easy to use ways. In addition users could provide arbitrary HTML to go up there as they liked.

    Alas, the gods dont seem to want this feature for themselves and as such apparently won't be applying the patch. I was asked to dumb it down by removing various features. I have up until now declined.

    So the fact of the matter is that code to provide the functionality you want is written and gathering digital dust as we speak. Were a god to be so inclined it would be a matter of a handful of clicks and we all could have full control over the links in the titlebar.

    Personally my view is that its sad that the gods and the pmdevils appear to be following Fords motto: "you can have any colour you like so long as its the colour I like." Id rather them say "you can have any feature you can write so long as it doesn't impact the overall site experience."


    ---
    demerphq

      First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
      -- Gandhi


      A while back I implemented a set of patches that have (unfortunately) caused some friction with the gods.

      I don't know what friction you are talking about, unless you are talking about your own feelings. I made some suggestions for a better (IMHO) design which several people agreed with...

      appear to be following Fords motto: "you can have any colour you like so long as its the colour I like."

      Several people didn't like your patch and so now it is a policy to only apply patches "we like", eh? I didn't apply the patches primarily because I haven't had the time for such things. I bet I've got more of my own code that I've written and haven't applied than you have your own unapplied code.

      I've certainly applied patches that I didn't like much. I've also regretted not pushing back harder in one such case, because now I can't fix a second problem until I undo the previous patch and redo it in the way I tried to explain several times.

      You got lucky and got a few patches applied. That doesn't happen much for a lot of reasons still.

      - tye        

        Sometimes I wear my feelings on my shirt tye. I'll let my contributions stand for themselves as a way of judging whether my intentions are good or not.

        I bet I've got more of my own code that I've written and haven't applied than you have your own unapplied code.

        That could be an interesting bet. :-) Im accumulating patches on the test server rather quickly. But beside measuring how long a piece of string is, why not put it up on the test server so we can have a look and see how it goes? Even if you dont have the time to get it integrated fully, (a labour intensive job even with the test server I admit, something I am working on to improve,) maybe we do. For instance I notice refactoring opportunities almost every time I work on the test server, and I'd be astounded if you didnt know far more, so its likely that you have stuff we could put into play.

        I can't fix a second problem until I undo the previous patch and redo it in the way I tried to explain several times

        Well, I dont know if this is something I've done or not. I dont know what the problem you mean is. Id be happy to look into it.

        You got lucky and got a few patches applied. That doesn't happen much for a lot of reasons still.

        Yeah. I got lucky. You know, I think that touches on my frustration here. I didn't get lucky. Almost nobody on this site knows what I wrote, I derive modest benefits from my efforts. I don't use Selected Best Nodes, or to be honest any of their friends much. I do benefit from the Other Users being cached, and so forth, just as you benefit from your Super Search and caching, etc, (++) work. Neither of us benefit much from what we do. Except we get this warm fuzzy feeling that people are using and enjoying things that we liked to do and are proud of. Really its PM thats lucky that there are people like us who will do what we do.

        cheers


        ---
        demerphq

          First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
          -- Gandhi


      Personally my view is that its sad that the gods and the pmdevils appear to be following Fords motto: "you can have any colour you like so long as its the colour I like." Id rather them say "you can have any feature you can write so long as it doesn't impact the overall site experience."
      You know what would be cool? If, some how, this website would to subscribe to some set of philosophy, where anyone could just download the source code, and look at it, or learn from it or even write helpful patches for it. Perhaps you could give this philosophy a name, maybe free, or open something.

      Oh well.
Re: Choosing a home node
by demerphq (Chancellor) on May 18, 2004 at 18:21 UTC

    For the record, below the rule line is what part of the proposed titlebar settings config page would look like. Ive had to omit part as FORM type tags are forbidden in a post like this and im not sure how to convert them appropriately.


    Welcome to Titlebar Settings!

    This is where you can configure the way the links on the title bar are displayed. You can use PerlMonks style HTML and linking to put pretty much whatever you want on the title bar.

    Below there is first a preview of what your current settings are, or of the settings you have been working on. After that is a form where you can control the settings. For most of that form the first column is used to specify the position of the link, or html, or whatever, to its right. The numbers default to floating point to remind you that the easiest way to reorder the nodelets is to exploit floating point. Setting a links position to 0 will delete it, or for system links hide it. At the bottom of the form is a set of additional options where you can control what seperator and alignment is used when generating the title bar.

    At the very bottom is a set of radio buttons that control what will happen when you hit submit. The option "Preview Settings" will cause submit to show a preview of what the options in the form would look like were they applied. "Apply Settings" will apply whatever settings are on the form. "Preview Defaults" will preview and set the form to the same settings as are default so you can use them as a starting point if you have already changed your titlebar."Preview Current" will set the form to the settings you currently are using and finally "Apply Defaults" will apply the defaults regardless of what is on the form.


    Preview:

     | log demerphq out | demerphq | The Monastery Gates | Super Search | 
     | Seekers of Perl Wisdom | Meditations | Perl Monks Discussion | Q&A | Library | 
     | Obfuscation | Poetry | Cool Uses For Perl | Snippets | Code | Craft | 
     | Perl News | Reviews | Tutorials | Newest Nodes | Offering Plate | 
     | edit demerphq's scratchpad | User Settings | Nodelet Settings | Titlebar Settings | 


      {Just kidding} Is it a TIMTOWTDI's attempt to make accept a site upgrade ?

      Anyway, how close is Perlmonks to Everything? Shouldn't such a modification/improvement be integrated directly to Everything as a contribution?

        Anyway, how close is Perlmonks to Everything?

        Im not really sure. I've heard not so much, and ive heard a lot. I think it depends which bits you mean. PM has had a lot of tinkering done to it by a whole host of folks, so Id guess its reasonably different.

        Shouldn't such a modification/improvement be integrated directly to Everything as a contribution?

        Probably I suppose. Presuming Everything uses $VARS in the same way PM does (probably a safe guess) then this particular work would probably be generalizable for Everything. I really hadnt thought about it.


        ---
        demerphq

          First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
          -- Gandhi


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