Re^4: A modest request of Merlyn

[delirium]

Really? When have I done that?

here and here, the examples I used initially.

I only feel attacked because you added me to the "some fool" category.

However, if you don't trust my objectivity in a node I was involved in, then I will withdraw my request if you can explain why calling downvoters losers, and the other guy an arrogant fool were not meant as personal attacks.

[merlyn]

And again, even in those nodes, I'm attacking recent actions, not the person themselves.

Maybe I haven't explained my fundamental philosophy well enough yet. Maybe it deserves a whole thread of its own. {grin}

I believe that people are fundamentally good, and have unbroken processing skills, but are occasionally operating on bad information, and thus from time to time generate actions that are damaging to themselves or others.

Thus, it is my job when I see it to point out that an action is damaging, generally because a person (being fundamentally good) will want to know that what they are doing is damaging themselves and others. In every instance of that response, I'm deeply convinced that it's not about the person, but about their recent actions, and that they are simply misinformed.

Look at it this way: if I thought the person was fundamentally bad, why would I bother trying to help them see the error of their ways? That would be wasted breath. In fact, I believe that people that gossip behind other's backs are more like that, with a belief that the people whom they gossip about are fundamentally bad. If not, they would confront the person with their information instead. But I digress.

In every instance you have listed, including your direct interaction with me, I'm clear that you're a good person, with good processing ability, and that for the moment you are probably merely misinformed. Hence, I interact with you, knowing that about you, and believing that your inherent goodness will recognize that my feedback isn't about you, but about your actions.

That's my intent. Always. Hence my disclaimer, which is specifically about code because I think most people can get that, is also about the person, which takes someone a little more conscious to get, unfortunately.

Now, that is not to say that there aren't people that I've seen a pattern of consistent damaging behaviors, and I may spend less time trying to give feedback. But even then, deep down, I believe they can be informed, eventually. There are no bad people. Only recently damaging actions.

[dragonchild]

delirium - you're being ridiculous. Come on! You're taking merlyn to task for:
• pointing out to PodMaster that code he wrote was obviously flawed. I'm sorry, but PodMaster should know that flocking safely requires atomic operations. Posting that without consulting prior art was foolish.
• pointing out to pernod that the business model he was asking about was foolish, given that the product is heavily based on an opposing model.

If merlyn hadn't taken them to task on those topics, I sure as hell would've! In fact, merlyn taking them to task is his responsability. He is one of the elders of this community. As an elder, it is his responsability to make sure that the "young'uns" aren't doing something stupid. In ancient times, this may have been things like

• Don't carry your spear with the spearhead pointing at your body
• Always hunt the deer from downwind
• Don't eat that plant - it'll give you the runs

Now, it's the Goddess-given right for "young'uns" to ignore the words of their elders. But, it's the Goddess-given right for elders, who have already paid their dues, to give you that wisdom any damn way they choose. If you don't like it, then you can do it differently when you have 20 years in the business. Until then, expect responses like this when, to me, it sounds like you're whining that you didn't get a lollipop after going to the doctor.

[delirium]

delirium - you're being ridiculous. Come on! You're taking merlyn to task for:

...for stating that his comments are globally never personal attacks, when a few examples of crossing that line exist. I'm so confident that he was technically correct regarding the coding involved, that I'm not going to try to analyze that.

to me, it sounds like you're whining that you didn't get a lollipop after going to the doctor.

Please let me know where I appear to be whining. After re-reading everything I've posted today, I feel as though I'm being objective and sticking to my one point: Declaring you won't do something and then doing it is committing an untruth.

As I stated in the first post in this thread, heated debate and name calling are humorous, and I enjoy them equally when I am the object of defamation and when some other fool is.

I declare that saying you won't do something, and then doing it is being dishonest, and Merlyn has done that. Given the preference, I would prefer the removal of the declaration of "nothing personal" to changing the habit of yelling at people for whatever reason suits you.

Keep yelling at me, just don't yell at me and say that's not what you're doing.

[LD2]

...for stating that his comments are globally never personal attacks, when a few examples of crossing that line exist.

I'm sure that a few examples do cross the line every now and again. It happens. If it doesn't happen, I'd be surprised. It's a bit of human nature. But, those who have been offended by such comments could message merlyn and discuss it. I'm sure that they'd work it out. If merlyn has offended you in such a way - I'm sure that he'd be pleased to communicate (and possibly apologize for offending) with you.

To have a whole thread on this seems a bit silly. Not particularly foolish, but silly. I hope that you are satisified with the answers you have recieved from such offender (aka merlyn) on this particular subject.

[PodMaster]

You're taking merlyn to task for:

• pointing out to PodMaster that code he wrote was obviously flawed...

That's not what delerium is talking about. He's talking about the update where merlyn calls everyone who downvotes him losers.

BTW, that update happened long before I ever saw his response.

[dragonchild]

Let's take an walk down Example Ln. I say "I want to shoot myself in the foot. It'll be cool!" You say "That's really foolish!" Everyone tells you to shut up. Are they losers?