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in reply to Re^2: Another prediction of Perl's demise
in thread Another prediction of Perl's demise
On the other hand, some tasks that are absurdly easy to accomplish in PHP are a relative (though very minor) pain in the arse in Perl. For example, try comparing the process of getting the contents of a text file into a variable in Perl vs. PHP. Hint: In PHP, you only need one function in a short line of code.
$foo = require("bar.txt");
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Re^4: Another prediction of Perl's demise
by Your Mother (Archbishop) on Nov 27, 2004 at 01:11 UTC
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use IO::All;
$content = io('file.txt')->slurp;
# or
io('file.txt') > $content;
# or
use File::Slurp;
$content = read_file( 'filename' );
# or any number of include methods in Mason/Template/Embperl...
The things that IO::All makes absurdly easy include (and aren't limited to):
- Tied files.
- Appending to file.
- Appending to our original string with a new file: $content << io('new.txt');
- Inserting the contents of a web page, even a secure one, into a string.
- Running a flat DB.
- Reading files backwards.
- Doing socket communication; clients and servers.
- File stats and File::Spec support.
- and so on; most can be done in one line.
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Sad, but I just gotta...
Who is Your Mother? :)
Examine what is said, not who speaks.
"But you should never overestimate the ingenuity of the sceptics to come up with a counter-argument." -Myles Allen
"Think for yourself!" - Abigail
"Time is a poor substitute for thought"--theorbtwo
"Efficiency is intelligent laziness." -David Dunham
"Memory, processor, disk in that order on the hardware side. Algorithm, algorithm, algorithm on the code side." - tachyon
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Re^4: Another prediction of Perl's demise
by Dylan (Monk) on Nov 26, 2004 at 07:08 UTC
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use Fatal qw( :void open close );
sub slurp {
local $/ = undef;
my ($s, $file);
open $file, $_[0];
$s = readline $file;
close $file;
return $s;
}
$foo = slurp("bar.txt");
That's not very much code.
Or, use CPAN.
use Slurp;
my $foo = slurp("bar.txt", "baz.txt");
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Your "that's not very much code" example is, in terms of a size ratio, a staggering increase in "effort". If you happen to be writing something involving a lot of tasks that compare similarly between the two languages, the difference can really pile up.
I'm afraid I don't really know anything about the Slurp module, and don't feel like looking it up right now. Thus, I can't really comment on the second example at this time.
In any case, my point was that some things are easier in PHP. Perhaps there are easier ways (or means that have roughly the same ease) to do these things in Perl, but if so, I certainly don't know them all. I suppose there's always the possibility that I'm just Wrong, and all PHP sucks ass horribly beside comparable use of Perl, but I tend to think that's not so — else the PHP language would never have been created in the first place.
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Well, some things are. However $foo = $bar || $baz doesn't work in PHP. Or even $foo ||= $bar.
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Re^4: Another prediction of Perl's demise
by revdiablo (Prior) on Nov 27, 2004 at 22:40 UTC
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For example, try comparing the process of getting the contents of a text file into a variable in Perl vs. PHP. Hint: In PHP, you only need one function in a short line of code.
This really has nothing to do with the point I was making, but I'll bite. I'll agree that many things are easier in PHP. This flows from PHP's philosophy of shoving everything in as individual built-in functions. I have many problems with this philosophy, but it's pretty clear that it makes many things easier.
The example you chose, though, isn't quite as dramatic as you make it to be. As others mentioned, the best answer (in terms of effort) is probably to use File::Slurp, but it's not very difficult to do in core Perl, either:
my $foo = do { local (@ARGV, $/) = "bar.txt"; <> };
Now, the PHP code is simpler and more obvious, but the Perl is no great feat. It's common enough that most good Perl programmers should recognize it immediately. Again, I'm not trying to say your main point about PHP being easier is wrong, but I don't think this is the best example of it. | [reply]
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Granted, there are surely better examples. I'm not precisely what you'd call a "good Perl programmer", though. At this point, only the obvious is likely to occur to me, because I just don't have the depth of knowledge necessary to conceive of the unobvious in Perl (usually). C'est la vie.
In any case, even if it's not the "best" example, it is still an example that is somewhat effective. By recognizing that there are other, better, examples, you only make my point more concrete.
In any case, my point is mostly predicated upon the notion that often the programmer's time is more valuable than whatever benefits you may gain through more time-intensive code implementations. The fact that PHP can often save hours of programmer time is its most compelling point of value. I, too, find the PHP philosophy of "too damned many tools" to be troublesome, but that doesn't change the fact that sometimes its benefits outweigh its detriments.
There are also times that Perl is easier, of course. In those situations, there's not much to be said for using PHP instead.
It doesn't seem that we disagree, in the final analysis. My only reason for bringing it up was as a reminder that sometimes the "overall better language" isn't the better language in a given instance, and if you have the resources and capability to choose either of them for a given job, you should just use the right tool for that job. Don't limit the tools you will use if you don't have a compelling reason to do so.
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