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My cow-orkers mostly...

by tye  (Monk)
on Jan 15, 2005 at 08:07 UTC ( #422479=poll: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Vote on this poll

are Perl Monks
[bar] 24/2%
love Perl
[bar] 70/7%
like Perl
[bar] 126/13%
are suspicious of Perl
[bar] 200/21%
dislike Perl
[bar] 43/4%
hate Perl
[bar] 15/2%
just use Perl
[bar] 89/9%
have never heard of Perl
[bar] 265/27%
are written in Perl
[bar] 143/15%
975 total votes
Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by mpolo (Chaplain) on Jan 15, 2005 at 15:53 UTC

    Who are these people going around orking cows? I mean cows aren't that intelligent. It's hardly a challenge to sneak up on them and ork them. In any case it will be interesting to see what such cow-orkers think of Perl, won't it? I'm predicting that they'll be mostly written in Perl, now that Bovine::Orking was released on CPAN.

      lol. I love writting cow-orkers in Perl.

      my $orker = Bovine::Orking->new; $orker->ork(@cows);
      May the Force be with you
      I must say that the term cow-orkers takes on a whole new meaning when you work for Gateway.

      -Kurt (moooo....)

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by Mr. Muskrat (Canon) on Jan 15, 2005 at 21:26 UTC

    It depends on the definition of cow-orker! (It's a small world after all.)

    If it includes the:

    • people working directly with me on a day to day basis then I'd say "are Perl Monks" and "love Perl".
    • folks that I help out in other departments that are supporting Perl scripts, then I'd say "like Perl" (it's always a quick fix when something goes wrong).
    • managers of other products, I'd say "are suspicious of Perl". ('This PERL thing, how long has it been in use? Is it stable? Is it going to cost us more money?' etc...)
    • single platform activists , I'd say "dislike Perl" or even "hate Perl". ('We need to move everything to a single platform. Solaris with an Oracle database system and everything written in Java!' yadda yadda... They won't give it a chance.)
    • folks who in other departments who run the Perl scripts, then I'd say "just use Perl".
    • folks outside of IT, then I'd have to say "have never heard of Perl". ('Pearl? What's that?')
    • "folks" that I play with on daily basis, then I'd definitely say "are written in Perl".
    So where's my "All of the above!" option? :)

      A small part of your problem (as well as most of us :), would be solved with another option of "Fear Perl" :). Coworkers fear perl because they do not know anything about it, but know that it's technology which leads to "what if it replaces me," and in many cases they are easily replaced by a few lines of code, and hate it for that reason. That rolls together suspicion, dislike (the coworker who are not replaced), hate (the ones who were replaced), lack of knowlege, and possibly brings in coworkers written in perl :).
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by jbware (Chaplain) on Jan 16, 2005 at 17:25 UTC
    Where was the option: "... are indifferent towards Perl, but love the utils I write for them using Perl."

Re: My co-workers mostly...
by PERLscienceman (Curate) on Jan 15, 2005 at 21:19 UTC
    I would add and vote for:
    My co-workers mostly.... don't realize the full power/potential of perl.
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by nimdokk (Vicar) on Jan 17, 2005 at 18:56 UTC
    How about "use Perl because I foisted it on them?" ;-)
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by rinceWind (Monsignor) on Jan 15, 2005 at 12:46 UTC
    At my present client, the management and the C++ and Java development teams are suspicious of Perl to the point of paranoia.

    However, my coworkers in application support and the DBAs love it. But they do sit near me in an open plan office, and I do get to show them interesting things.

    I'm Not Just Another Perl Hacker

OT but funny: Enter The Cow-orker
by logan (Curate) on Jan 17, 2005 at 19:44 UTC
    This has nothing to do with Perl, but Enter the Cow-orker is hilarious. You'll gasp, you'll thrill, you'll be reminded of the slug two cubes over from you.

    Cow-orkers. There's one in every office.

    "What do I want? I'm an American. I want more."

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by Errto (Vicar) on Jan 16, 2005 at 20:29 UTC

    My coworkers have not used Perl. They are not biased against it, but they do have many of the common misconceptions. However, we recently found ourselves in a situation where for our new document management system, hosted on Apache+JBoss, we needed a way to handle file downloads. I was told that this had to be implemented with a Servlet in JBoss because the access control system required calling some database procedures, but there was much fretting over the use of a servlet for the actual file downloads because some of the files are big.

    So I said, "well, why not let Apache handle the downloads." And they said, "well what about access control." So I said, "why not write a mod_perl authentication handler for the access check and an output filter to deal with the fact that the files are locally encrypted" and they were intrigued. Now, of course, the challenge is that I need to give them some actual code :)

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by radiantmatrix (Parson) on Jan 18, 2005 at 19:31 UTC

    My colleagues dislike Perl largely because it isn't C# or VB.NET. The lack of a "point-and-click" design tool -- even though our use for Perl has to do with text-mode automation tools -- leaves them disgusted. That, and they can't wrap their head around the idea that I don't need the full (pricey) ActiveState Komodo and PDK to develop and even compile Perl code.

    To them, the $200 price tag of the ActiveState kit is seen as "Perl costs more than C# -- C# is only $100". One or two are finally understanding that I use the free version of Perl with SciTE to develop all of our automation tools -- and that the $200 license we've purchased from ActiveState was a waste, since I'm the only Perl devel and I don't use it.

    require General::Disclaimer;
    s//2fde04abe76c036c9074586c1/; while(m/(.)/g){print substr(' ,JPacehklnorstu',hex($1),1)}

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by gregor42 (Parson) on Jan 19, 2005 at 15:36 UTC

    My cow-orkers mostly...

    Write Perl code in their basements at night (if indeed at all) and never let their code see the light of day. Perhaps they'll run a newsletter or a blog from home servers. They'll use it for system maintenance & all kinds of utility purposes on their Linux & FreeBSD boxen that they keep hidden away and never ever speak of in the office...

    Back in the office - in the land of Windoze desktops, cube forests, waterfall development cycles, and unsurmountable feature creep...

    If someone mentions it in their presence they will over-compensate with criticism thinking someone is trying to out them.

    If someone actually USES it in PRODUCTION - alas in their extreme jealousy - the Inquisition begins.

    On the bright side: the Inquisition came before & fell upon the necks of the .ASP'ers & VB'ers.

    Fortunately I started learning Java shortly after learning Perl - always chasing that Holy Grail of Platform Independence... So I find myself WITH a job. Provided they stay out of my basement... :-\

    - Gregor42

    Wait! This isn't a Parachute, this is a Backpack!
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by zakzebrowski (Curate) on Jan 16, 2005 at 22:32 UTC
    1: Are perlmonks
    2: love perl
    4: just use perl
    3: hate perl
    Update: Now the people who hate perl are trying to rewrite the application in Java... Ugh.

    Zak - the office
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by tbone1 (Monsignor) on Jan 18, 2005 at 12:13 UTC
    I'd place them in two camps: "are intimidated because it's new to them" and "don't like it because I can't show off how brilliant I am with it since you know it better".

    tbone1, YAPS (Yet Another Perl Schlub)
    And remember, if he succeeds, so what.
    - Chick McGee

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by ChuckularOne (Prior) on Jan 19, 2005 at 15:03 UTC
    I'm adrift in a sea of .NET users!!!! AGH!!!
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by ikegami (Patriarch) on Jan 21, 2005 at 18:58 UTC

    "Are subjected to my constant ravings of Perl."

    It's slowly having an effect. At some point, each of them asked why I thought Perl was so good.

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by mr_mischief (Monsignor) on Jan 21, 2005 at 19:36 UTC
    Where is "I don't have coworkers because I don't have a job, you insensitive clod!" -- oh, that's right, on the ./ poll, right above "are CowboyNeal fanatics".

    Seriously, though, I voted for "are written in Perl" because the utilities I've written in Perl over the years have saved me more work than most of my human counterparts. Unfortunately, I think that's part of why my latest employer thinks my job will be so easy to fill somewhere that the going pay rate is twice what it is here.

    Anyway, no reason to be bitter I guess. I wish them luck, and hopefully they wish me luck on the job hunt, too. Perl should come in just as handy at the next place that hires me, and maybe they won't be so quick to toss me out for silly reasons like physical proximity to the servers which were here when I was hired and which I successfully worked on for over a year after they moved.

    Christopher E. Stith
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 18, 2005 at 14:48 UTC
    Java guys despise it and want to go on holy crusades against it, cool hacker types that like to get things done love it, hardware/firmware types are like "umh, what's that"... I'd like to rewrite my managers in Perl.
      Thanks for the generalization. Those of us who are hybdid programmers must all hate what we do then... But I like what I do, therefore, I don't exist. Crap.

      Update: The alternate version of this is (thanks to L~R point it out), should be, sorry to hear your java guys are like that and sorry if I did misunderstand. If you meant that about all, my post still stands :)

      Give me strength for today.. I will not talk it away..
      Just for a moment.. It will burn through the clouds.. and shine down on me.

        We obviously didn't parse the AM's statement the same way. Since the title of the poll is My cow-orkers mostly..., I read it as:

        Of my cow-orkers, the Java guys despise..
        The opinion that this was not a generalization but a distinct select group became stronger when I read the last sentence: I'd like to rewrite my managers in Perl

        The word 'my' ne 'all'. In any case, I agree that in general, people make a lot of generalizations on things offend the group as a whole or at least individuals that do not fit the generalization. I just didn't see that happening here.

        Cheers - L~R

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by Qiang (Friar) on Jan 21, 2005 at 02:04 UTC
    my coworkers are all senior sysadmins except me(junior) and they seems to use shell and unix commands and no perl at all.

    I am the only one who write perl code and the other day the senior sysadmin got real surprised when he sees this part of my perl code :

    foreach my $usrdir ( sort { scalar $hashref->{$b} <=> scalar $hashref->{$a} } keys %{$hashref} ) { ... }

    now i suppose that looks scary to a non-perl user ??

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by logan (Curate) on Jan 21, 2005 at 18:18 UTC
    Actually, perl gets a lot of respect in my office. We're a pure unix shop, spun off from SGI and now 90% Linux. Every desk has a Windows box, but some of them are collecting dust in the corner. The prevailing attitude is that perl has it's place, but if you need to write fast code (as opposed to writing code fast), you need C. Since we build video server platforms, I really can't argue. That said, perl has a place in the product and the company. Some of our database tools are perl, our test tools are mostly perl, and our product's internal diagnostic scripts are perl. Morover, every week or so I get a rush job to test something very specific or recreate a scenario that's surfaced in the field. Perl to the rescue.

    "What do I want? I'm an American. I want more."

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by legato (Monk) on Feb 02, 2005 at 00:54 UTC

    Most of my work has to do with automating tasks, so I can safely say my co-workers are written in Perl. My employer used to hire an army of temps to go through various logs and spot/fix problems (easy fixes, usually, like restoring readable permissions on shared folders). Now, a nightly script does it all.

    I just have to be careful not to code my own replacement. ;-)

    Anima Legato
    .oO all things connect through the motion of the mind

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by ChilliHead (Monk) on Jan 21, 2005 at 08:42 UTC
    In my current job (well the job I had until just before Christmas when they downsized me) perl was seen as a "hackers" language.

    Now, I can understand this attitude from the management who didn't have a clue on technical matters, but the sys admins also had this attitude, as if the use of perl would encroach on their area.

    They even went as far as removing perl from our unix installation to make sure no one used it (though curiosly they left the fortran compiler installed), stating that shell scripts should be enough for what we required.

    This is why me perl is now so rusty.

    What ees dis, some kind of hufty?
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by gube (Parson) on Jan 20, 2005 at 08:47 UTC

    I know vb/c/c++ i have worked in all field but it's not flexible like perl.

    Because, here more than one way to do the programs in perl.


Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by feloniousMonk (Pilgrim) on Jan 26, 2005 at 14:50 UTC
    I work in a bioinformatics lab - mostly everything I've done has been done in Perl. In my little world, things like C are trusted but used as a last resort, and other languages like Java and C++ are mistrusted and all but unused.
    -- felonious
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by BioGeek (Hermit) on Jan 31, 2005 at 00:36 UTC
    I am currently searching for a job, so I have no co-workers. But as I hope to find a job in the bioinformatics industry, and Perl is a fairly often used language there, I hope to be able to vote in a few weeks for "My co-workers love Perl".
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by Toxa (Novice) on Jan 31, 2005 at 17:13 UTC
    My Team in Perl Monks : Mago ( Pontiff ); r34d0nl1 ( Monk ); Toxa ( initiate ); Video-game ( initiate ) ; Mago is a man that no live without Perl ...
      Welcome to the jungle toxa ! But There is something that I could not believe... Is Mago a man ????? rsrsrs
      And update it !! You are no longer an initiate !! Now you are a rebel novice !:p

        The Mago is a hacker !!

        Just Another Perl Mago *<|;-P


Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by Caillte (Friar) on Feb 09, 2005 at 09:13 UTC
    Help! I am trapped in a PHP house and can't get free! ;)

    This page is intentionally left justified.

Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by kprasanna_79 (Hermit) on Jan 28, 2005 at 06:55 UTC
    I love to vote this section, as i am very interested on this site.
    My co-workers love perl very much
    love it too much
Re: My cow-orkers mostly...
by michaelo (Initiate) on Feb 11, 2005 at 03:03 UTC
    80% of developers I work with love perl, the others are too stupid to see the truth. 100% of dba's hate it beacuse our Perl DBI scripts hit the production box real hard. Lucky our IT Co-ordinator is a Perl Monk par excellance!

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