Re^2: Web forum markup language and the Monastery

[demerphq]

And that demerphq doesn't like users to use structured HTML with h1 and h2, but wants them to start with h4 instead, because PM itself uses h3 for the title. (I disagree and think PM should be fixed, because that can be done much more easily (with CSS, for example).)

Well, i agree with your diagreement, but until it is changed I do have more or less that opinion. OTOH since I've only ever considered a node about it once (which was yours) and that the community didn't agree with me when I did, I pretty much recognize that moaning about it is a lost cause. :-) (And by inference im not really sure why you brought it up, my opinion in things like this is no more relevent that anyone elses.)

[Juerd]

im not really sure why you brought it up

To answer the question. I had always learned that h1, h2, etc were for structuring, but your POV appears to be that the number in there is to indicate the size of the heading. This demonstrates that even something with a spec, like HTML, is open to multiple interpretations. For the OP, it is a hint to define these things, or at least think of a way to handle them.

I pretty much recognize that moaning about it is a lost cause. :-)

I am not convinced that it is. If you feel this is important, we should still seek a way to fix it. Either through CSS (just define font-size in the right contexts) or by disallowing the "big" (or, from my point of view: higher level) headings. There was no clear concensus on the consideration, but there were in fact more people who voted edit than who voted keep, and this proves that you're not the only one who dislikes the current state of things.

About the headings being too big: I agree, even.

[demerphq]

I think its more a question of how you view nodes in context. I tend to stay away from H1 in nodes because normally people view the nodes in context of a section or thread. This means that the node you post is actually a subnode of a preexisting structure. I find it annoying to have a section like Perlmonks Discussion have an H1 and then inside nodes that are displayed also have H1 tags. Had you posted your doc to tutorials in that format I wouldn't have minded as in that case your node would truely be top level and thus the section breakouts you were using wouldnt conflict with the page layout as a whole.

Update:Oh, also in the situation of your node, iirc it was front paged, which is a section of many sections so the headings you chose "broke" the way the nodes of different sections were deliniated. Im really not sure how to address this situation properly. Im not really sure its worth that much effort to do so either as such nodes are only a temporary irritation as people seem to avoid H tags generally and thus push those posts that do off of the section list eventually.

[Juerd]

I think its more a question of how you view nodes in context. (...) This means that the node you post is actually a subnode of a preexisting structure.

This is a good point that I had not considered yet. To be honest, I added the readmore tags mostly to avoid the need for consideration. I had no idea that it would be subject of consideration three times after that. I don't visit the front page, and I visit main section pages only when starting a new thread. So I didn't really think about any pre-existing structure.

The only solution for this, however, is to not use structured heading tags at all. And that sucks, because the alternative is font tags with size attributes. One can argue that the number in h1..h6 is for font size and not just for structure, but if this is the case, then CSS should be used to make them smaller so they can still all be used. I add that I like to be able to paste things from my web site or that are generated by pod2html.

Dynamic changing heading tags is not possible, because the number of levels is limited. Font size sucks, because replies are smaller than the rest, and users should always be able to override this. And screen readers won't recognize structure if the document isn't html-ly structured.

Is there any solution to this problem?