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Seeking Programmers.

by SkipHuffman (Monk)
on Oct 31, 2005 at 16:02 UTC ( #504308=perlnews: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Apologies if this is out of place.

I am looking to bring on board a couple of perl programmers to help launch Flying Car Television. It was suggested to me that I use jobs.perl.org, but I cannot agree to one of the rules for posting there.

Update: It has been pointed out that perhaps I should mention that I am looking for people willing to work for company stock rather than cash.

I seek your indulgence. I have placed the details on my home node in hopes of being less intrusive.

I will take up no more space on this main section.

Thank you.

Skip

Considered
muba: delete: PM is not a place to search for employees, is it?
Unconsidered
Arunbear: keep (and edit) votes prevented reaping; Keep/Edit/Delete: 23/2/23
Moved from Seekers of Perl Wisdom to Perl News

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Seeking Programmers.
by blue_cowdawg (Monsignor) on Oct 31, 2005 at 18:20 UTC
        I am looking to bring on board a couple of perl programmers to help launch Flying Car Television. It was suggested to me that I use jobs.perl.org, but I cannot agree to one of the rules for posting there. Update: It has been pointed out that perhaps I should mention that I am looking for people willing to work for company stock rather than cash.

    Wait... let me get this straight... you want quality programmers to work for stock in a company that may or may not be worth anything, and not get paid in cash?

    This is shades of a job I had where they told me "well... there's no bonuses here, but we give you options instead" At the end of my employment with them my 50,000 options were worth a whopping US$75. That works out to a penny and a half a piece.

    There is a truck in my driveway. It ain't a turnip truck.. and I haven't fallen out of it lately...

    I wouldn't take an offer like that. I don't think that the kind of talent you want is going to either. I'm willing to be wrong, but then again....

    Let me give you some sage advice: get some funding, and hire your programmers. If you can't get the funding to be able to afford salaries for staff then maybe you need to reconsider your business plan. I honestly don't mean to be harsh, but I for one have already been burned once in my life by a poorly funded business with an business plan that didn't make sense to investors, and I wasn't the only one. I would hate to see somebody here at PM who hasn't my experience get burned as well. This is a bad time to be unemmployed.


    Peter L. Berghold -- Unix Professional
    Peter -at- Berghold -dot- Net; AOL IM redcowdawg Yahoo IM: blue_cowdawg
      ++blue_cowdawg, and for OP, re blue_cowdawg's advice (from a *former* entrepreneur) about funding....

      Starting up an under-funded company is a lot like smoking to commit suicide: it's not entirely reliable. But it *IS* at least (or so it seems to me) as likely to (figuratively, in this case) kill you and far more quickly! At that point not only are you "out" of your time and whatever you took from your pocket, but your employees are "out" in the cold without a blanket.

      That said, while this post has generated some interesting observations, I tend to agree with the purality who would delete it, as inappropriate to this site.

        If anyone were offering to quit a paying job to work with me on this, I would refuse them. I do not want to leave anyone out in the cold. If you are too risk averse, this is not for you.

        Thank you

        Skip

      You are describing exactly the situation I am trying to be clear about.

      Yes, there is risk. I think the idea is exciting, but then it is my idea, so you would expect that. I think it will be very successful, but again, it is my baby. I am not attempting to deceive anyone. If someone sees value in my vision and thinks that it is worth risking some of their valuable time, then I welcome them. If not, then we can pass with no animosity.

      I am not making any insane statements about "this is the next big thing and you will make a million dollars, get in on the ground floor now!" The idea is what it is. If it does not look like a good risk to you, than it is not a good risk for you. Others may (and have) disagreed.

      One small correction. I do not intend to compensate my people with options, but with actual stock. Which if we go belly up will be just as worthless, but prettier.

      thank you for youre comments

      Skip
Re: Seeking Programmers.
by jdporter (Canon) on Oct 31, 2005 at 18:42 UTC

    The question of whether the OP's business model makes sense, or whether he has good reason for not using jobs.perl.org, is very distinct from the question of whether the posting here is acceptable or on topic.

    As has been pointed out many times in the past, PerlMonks is not a job board. Of course, if we always delete the discussion every time it comes up, people won't have anything to learn from; so occasionally it's nice to have a thread like this where we can yell it once again. Thank you. :-)

    We're building the house of the future together.
Re: Seeking Programmers.
by cog (Parson) on Oct 31, 2005 at 16:05 UTC
    I cannot agree to one of the rules for posting there

    I'm really curious... Care to share what that rule might be?

      My bet is this one:

      You need to have the funds to pay anyone you hire. A job where the payment solely consists of equity in a business venture or a share of the (expected) profits is not acceptable. In addition, a job where payment cannot be negotiated before work commences is also not acceptable. For short (< 1-2 months) contract jobs, you are expected to be able to pay for a project at its completion. For longer contract jobs, you are expected to pay at regular intervals. For salaried jobs, it is expected that the salary will be paid on a regular basis starting at the time of an employee's hire.
      A reply falls below the community's threshold of quality. You may see it by logging in.
    A reply falls below the community's threshold of quality. You may see it by logging in.
Re: Seeking Programmers.
by Mutant (Priest) on Oct 31, 2005 at 16:20 UTC
    This node's been considered, and will most likely get deleted. PM is usually not the place to post job-related stuff (do some searches, and you'll see it's come up plenty of times before).

    May I suggest you email the maintainers of jobs.perl.org and enquire about there being ways around their rule? I'm sure if you have legitimate positions, they can could consider some alternative.
Re: Seeking Programmers.
by cfreak (Chaplain) on Nov 01, 2005 at 03:24 UTC

    SkipHuffman no offense, but if your idea is so great then why aren't you pitching it to investors who can give you the capital to actually pay people?

    Or if you're worried about losing control of your company then why aren't you at a bank asking for a loan? Many banks will loan you money if you have a decent business plan and a plausable way to make money. At the very least you could be researching the countless programs that exist to help get small businesses off the ground.

    Honestly I wouldn't do it because, besides not getting paid, you have no plan and you don't seem to have tried awefully hard to make a plan or to obtain money from somewhere, doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in your assertions that the stock will be worth something someday ...

    You'll be lucky if you find anyone willing to work for free, its likely that if you do find someone they aren't going to be all that good ... buggy software is a sure way that your idea is sunk before it even gets off the ground.

    So my advice, do some research, make a real business plan and find someone to invest in your idea. Its risky enough for someone to take a job with a startup that does pay a salary! Give someone a reason to actually work with/for you.

      I would suggest that you not make assumptions about my preparedness without knowledge.

      Why have I not collected money from investors, or bank loans and then used that money to pay programmers? Several reasons. The most important one is control. The second is availablity. If I am unable to get people to share the risk with me, then I can still do that. I may need those funds later in the launch process, perhaps for equipment, supplies, or facilities, which are certainly not going to be obtainable without hard funds. By husbanding my funds and funding sources now, I will still have them available later.

      So far as a plan, I don't know what you are refering to. I have a business plan. In fact I have one complete one, and my lawyer is independently developing a second one for comparison. If you mean a development plan, then you are correct that I do not have a clean written project plan, that will be the first order of business for my development team. This is not uncommon for a creative endeavor. I am not opening a Wendy's Franchise here.

      And one final thing, I am not asking anyone to work for free. I am asking experts to risk some of their valuable time on the expectation of significant rewards. Yes, I am asking them to gamble. But no more so than if I were asking them to invest money in my enterprise, then I were to turn around and pay them (or others) with that same money.

      I understand that this is not a risk that you are interested in. That is certainly an understandable position.

      Thank you.

      Skip
Re: Seeking Programmers.
by zentara (Archbishop) on Oct 31, 2005 at 18:03 UTC
    So what is Flying Car Television? The core idea of FCTV (Flying Car Television) is quite simple. Independent TV show producers create new and original programming, Viewers pick which shows they want to watch, FCTV puts those shows on a DVD and ships it to to the viewer, the viewer pays for these shows and the producer gets paid for producing

    Well from watching what is going on in terms of Hollywood trying to stop illicit movie and DVD sharing, I would be surprised if you sold more than 1 copy of any DVD. So where will the profits for the programmer come from?


    I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth. flash japh

      Because the DVDs are individually produced piracy tracking will be comparatively simple. see Steganography

      If an episode of a copyrighted work is found in an unauthorized channel, then all copies of the next episode of that program can be tagged. When that episode appears we will know exactly which subscriber is breaking his agreement. Remedies could vary from cancellation of subscription to contacting legal authorities.

      Skip

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