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Re^6: Go to?

by Ronnie (Scribe)
on Apr 11, 2006 at 11:38 UTC ( #542512=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^5: Go to?
in thread Go to?

Not surprised that you were cowardly enough to be anonymous! First off I'm not responsible for the conditions that I work under - I don't expect special treatment - nor do I have to justify them to anyone, least of all a coward! I will do so only in an attempt to reduce your level of ignorance. Perl is installed by our Support team under root and humble (look it up in the dictionary) programmers don't have root access! It's nothing personal just the way my employers have done things! Is this the best way to do things? Probably not but I'm not arrogant (or ignorant ) enough to think that the world revolves round my arse! Support, apparently due to space constraints, have NOT added the perldoc or perlfunc functions so much as I might want I can't access them (nor amazingly enough can anyone else, phew that's a relief , for a moment you had me convinced that I was the only moron employed here!) Webb access is once again a policy decision that affects all the programmers here and is not (sorry to puncture another of your sadly erroneous attempted barbs) a restriction placed specifically on me. Whether my employers are moronic or not I would suggest you don't know enough to form an accurate opinion. Even if they were -
a) What's that got to do with you?
b) How is that my fault?
c) What has that to do with answering my question?
Am I supposed to quit because my employers conditions of employment cause some nameless coward to be offended? As the application that I've to write a Perl wrapper round is written in UNIX I can't even begin to comprehend the fury that the phrase "written in UNIX" seems to have generated, do you have some deep seated neurosis about UNIX scripts or maybe UNIX scripting is only for the little people beneath you? (In case your arrogance feels the need to be released again -I'm not actually interested in a reply from you!) So in closing -did you get anything right in your attempt to be offensive? If you were hoping to cause offense - you failed as the only emotion I feel for cowards is pity. Jaded assumptions apart it was clearly a well thought out response though.
Many Thanks,
Ronnie
PS I'm guessing from your overall tone that you are still in great pain after being neutered - my sympathies but I don't think you'll miss them!

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Re^7: Go to?
by m.att (Pilgrim) on Apr 11, 2006 at 13:14 UTC

    The 'perldoc' command, despite sometimes being split out from the distribution of Perl in some OS packages and/or core OS installs, is important to have installed. It provides access to documentation about the core language as well as to the included libraries (modules). While it's entirely possible to program Perl on a system that doesn't have perldoc installed, it's pretty darn near impossible for someone to program effectively and efficiently without some type of access to perldoc's functionality. (and hence to easily accessible and readable documentation in general)

    In short, having access to the proper documentation for your language should fall under 'having the appropriate tools to work effectively' and is the responsibility of your employer to provide.

    At the risk of making an assumption about your current situation, I can't help but find it somewhat sadistic that your employer both does not provide the documentation for a language they've assigned a task for and also will not provide the required tools to do your work when requested with the vague reasoning of 'not enough disk space'. Surely you can approach your employers and request that you either be permitted to have access to the documentation for the version of Perl you're working with, possibly on your workstation itself, or possibly via access to a website that has them. You should pay keen attention to finding the documentation appropriate for the version of Perl that you are working with as the language has changed quite significantly in its lifetime.

    In addition, although the pointers to documentation that you've received were in response to your original request for information related to 'goto', however I would expect that you'll be very likely to require additional information that is clearly illustrated in the documentation in the future. I hope that you are able to acquire what you need.

    Good luck!

Re^7: Go to?
by ptum (Priest) on Apr 11, 2006 at 20:33 UTC

    Whoa there, big fella! No point in falling to the level of whoever is baiting you. :)

    I see you've been around the Monastery for a while, albeit intermittently, so you ought to know how things are done around here. At the risk of giving unwanted advice, I have three comments:

    1. If someone posts something that you think is intended to offend, try responding positively or neutrally. This avoids misunderstanding (in case the offense was unintentional) and shows you to be a level-headed guy who others will want to help. I can't think that insults are ever warranted even toward anonymous monks -- they just make you look juvenile.
    2. If you're asking for help, try to remember that others are taking time from their busy schedules to assist you, and that they don't owe you anything (unless you have previously helped them). Humility should be your watchword -- keep your arrogance for when you answer other people's posts (or better yet, keep it suppressed altogether).
    3. Unix is an operating system, not a language, as far as I know. I have encountered many shell scripts, particularly Korn shell scripts, but (at least for those more familiar with Unix) the phrase "written in UNIX" seems nonsensical. Admittedly, many folks probably understand what you meant, but the lack of specificity makes one wonder about your knowledge of whatever shell the script is written in.

    In spite of what may seem a patronizing tone, my comments here are kindly meant, and may help you to make PerlMonks a more positive place for all of us. I'm not the anonymous monk(s) with whom you have been sparring, just in case you wondered. Try to view this interchange with a sense of humor, and take yourself a little less seriously. :)


    No good deed goes unpunished. -- (attributed to) Oscar Wilde
      Sorry but I feel I must respond to this as you were somewhat missing the point.

      1 - The individual I was responding to was making no effort to help - moron, labotomy, interesting chemicals etc - he was just being offensive. Now as he's not standing next to me - albeit briefly - I felt I HAD to respond in kind. Far from being juvenile, though not Jewish I firmly believe in an "eye for an eye" and don't give me the rebuttal about the world going blind as a result because that misses the fundamental point and I'm no prozletizer.

      2 - Anyone who responded without being abusive, and did answer my question I'm very very grateful to. (Whichever respondee's advice I have taken I've thanked personally - as I usually do).

      3 - Written in UNIX, well isn't that in fact a shorthand way of saying a shell script? It is around my office ; what difference does it make which shell it's written in as far as my question was concerned anyway? The Korn or Bourne or any other shell type is actually irrelevant and any such grumble ia a bit picky/petty.

      Perhaps if you are abused by some coward you can happily laugh it off and that's fine for you - I wouldn't criticise. I was brought up in a very rough neighbourhood and at a young age it was beaten into me that you let noone stand on you - EVER. Sad to say but lessons learnt early seldom leave you. I didn't take any offence at your remarks and I hope you take non at mine but I felt I had to respond. As someone once said " You are what you is" .
      Cheers,
      Ronnie

        You do miss the fundamental point of "eye for an eye" - it sets the upper limit for any punishment for a crime/transgression. The idea is not restricted to the Jewish belief, and surely does not mean that there is any obligation for you to "respond in kind". To "respond in kind" is juvenile behaviour, but there are many people who never overcome it when they grow older.

        My dictionary did not find a definition of "prozletizer" - what kind of belief system is that?

        I appreciate your thoughtful response, and that you did not take offense at my remarks. :)

        Two thoughts:

        • "A man's wisdom gives him patience; it is to his glory to overlook an offense." --Solomon, King of Israel

        • "For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." --Jesus of Nazareth

        While both of those quotes can be found in the Christian Bible, I think that they are applicable to people of any faith (or none), in that they accurately depict real life (in addition to having spiritual value). We all admire someone who is 'big enough' to overlook a petty insult, someone who is not easily distracted from their goal by divisive remarks. And I think I am not alone in being motivated to help a humble person while desiring to 'take down a peg or two' a person who comes across as arrogant.

        Although you are not the first to complain of 'bullying' or 'abuse' in this community, I'm not sure street sense will be very helpful here. After all, PerlMonks is almost entirely an exchange of words (and in some cases, ideas) between strangers. I've only met one other monk in real life (merlyn) that I know of, and although I found him to be a likeable and intelligent man, I'm pretty sure he doesn't know me from Adam (except that I'm alive and, thankfully, wear more than a fig leaf). To me (and I think to many others, including those inclined to nitpick) this community is just a fun place to exchange ideas in relative anonymity, and it is not possible to be abused here if one keeps a level head and doesn't take one's self too seriously. Ultimately, the only victory anyone can score against you here is to goad you into writing things that tarnish your own soul.

        I would cheerfully let someone 'stand on me' verbally if I thought it would help me to get an answer I badly needed, and I would feel in no way diminished by the exchange. My 'rights' (to be treated respectfully, to be honored as a person) are not my master; I can (and do) freely waive them if they keep me from my objectives. While I'm not a pacifist, I can conceive of situations in which I might choose to waive my 'right' to defend myself physically, as well. But we are not playing for such high stakes here.

        I'm not just trying to get the last word ... I really think that you should re-evaluate the way you think of this online community. It is a lot more fun to view it as a game or contest of wits than to take it personally, in my opinion. :)


        No good deed goes unpunished. -- (attributed to) Oscar Wilde
        Stop it, you're killing me here. After numerous attempts by several people to convey to you just how ignorant it is to claim something is "written in UNIX" you refute all that with the crushing argument of "that's how we say it in my office"? Never mind that we've already established your workplace to be a dismal cave of intellectually (yep, two l's Mr.Spelling Bee) impaired wastrels (who spend their workday making bets on the origin of anonymous PM posters instead of ... uh ... working). Ok, so you were beaten over the head once too often at a young age, but surely you must realize how farcical your posts are? Come on, even a Yank must be capable of that much introspection.

        And just so you know, there're other places than Britain and the US where English is spoken. And despite your obviously deep-rooted fear of anything British you should know they don't hold exclusivity on the sarcasm thing either (I know that parts of the US populace have had their capacity for irony and sarcasm surgically removed though, so you can be forgiven for not realizing that).

        Hey, but good luck on your bid for exclusivity on the Week's Worst Nodes list.
Re^7: Go to?
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 12, 2006 at 08:35 UTC
    I didn't think this could get any better, but it does. So not only does your employer stupidly restrict web access, they also refuse to give you access to the proper documentation for the programming language you use? Tell me, do they also tie one of your arms behind your back? Do they blindfold you when you get into work in the morning? Or maybe they just go with a frontal lobotomy after you sign the employment contract (that would certainly explain some of the posts in this thread).

    How is this your fault? Easy, if you weren't such a loser you wouldn't be desparate enough to work at the shitty job you apparently have.

    And since you still don't seem to get it, saying that a system is "written in UNIX" is as nonsensical as saying something is "written in Windows". UNIX is an operating system, not a scripting language, and what you're talking about are shell scripts. Anyone who has allegedly been in computing for over thirty years and doesn't know that must have been going through life with both eyes shut and the brain addled by interesting chemicals. Which again makes perfect sense, given the quality of your posts. (See, you can't just go and throw in insults without context, you gotta lead up to them or else you lose the non-toking segment of your audience.)
      I see you are still a coward. Incidently your words - remember using them.....
      What you are talking about are shell scripts......... I presumed an intelectual giant like yourself would have extrapolated that from the context. Besides I wasn't being insulting - by your own admission you are a coward , what's the problem don't you like the reality of YOUR situation? Anyway must sign off no more time to spend with a nebish like you. I have to go and put into effect the usefull help I got from the valued contributors to this thread.
      TaTa
      PS I have enjoyed your posts even if most of your comments seem to be projected self analysis. Hope you recover fully - that is the correct spelling though perhaps you're more comfortable with a double o. Feel free to write again my office thinks your a hoot - though out of your depth. A colleague is interested, are you American or English? Don't feel you have to reply I don't care one way or another - arrogance doesn't recognise inetrnational boundaries - but the office like a laugh now and again and there is a bet on.

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