Catalyst question -- should I build my own perl for running as non-root in a hosted environment

[tphyahoo]

I'm evaluating Catalyst for use in a hosted environment where I'm not root.

It's hard to get this puppy installed, because even if you follow the instructions on the wiki about setting LIB5PERL, makefile args, etc, somewhere deep in the installation script, it wants to copy something into /usr/local rather than ~/local where it should. This is discussed on the catalyst list and the details aren't that important.

At any rate, although I'm not root, I get 20G of space, which to me sounds like enough to put my own version of perl there.

I'm thinking I might want to give this a try, and if it works Catalyst will have gotten a lot friendlier for the hosted environment crowd. But after googling around I couldn't find a good guide for how to do this.

And I also am not clear on whether this is a good idea.

An alternate approach for low-cost catalyst hosting would be a root account on a paravirtualized server using uml or xen.

I'd like to hear opinions on a) whether Catalyst is worth getting set up in a hosted environment, and b) if it is, is a locally installed perl the way to go and c) how do I do that.

Thanks!

[samtregar]

a) Sounds useful to me.

b) It sounds a little extreme, but if Catalyst is really so broken that it can't respect a simple prefix setting then it might be a reasonable short-term solution until it gets fixed. Have you considered fixing it yourself?

c) When you compile Perl, tell it to install into a directory you control. Something like:

  sh Configure -Dprefix=~/perl

That will configure Perl to install below ~/perl. If you're completely new to compiling Perl, read this: INSTALL.

-sam

[girarde]

Putting my sysad hat on, if you aren't root and you don't install your own perl, at some point you are likely to be surprised when the perl that you are relying on changes. If this hosted environment is critical to your success, you probably want to control as much of it as you can.

[tphyahoo]

An excellent point.

There are really two issues here.

1) Make Catalyst easy to install as non-root on a hosted webserver, to encourage adoption by a wider userbase.

2) Make installed catalyst as predicatable/reliable as possible.

For 1, perl -MCPAN -e 'install Bundle::CatalystGoodies' or something along those lines is the most attractive option. It should be fast, and it should Just Work.

There is a Task::Catalyst that was supposed to have this role, but it seems to have problems in a variety of environments (even if you're root). As a workaround to that, Matt Trout created the "shadowcatInstaller" script, which does more or less the same thing but using magic to handle a variety of exceptions in a smooth and frienly way. Judging by postings in the catalyst newgroup this "just works" if you're root, but not if you're non-root. However, the maintainer, Matt Trout, has said he is working on getting something out that will Just Work for non root as well.

For 2, I think yes, it may be better to build one's own perl. When you start requiring that degree of control, though, non-root on a shared server may be only an interim solution while you shop for a paravirtualized xen/uml root solution (cheap, suitable for a lighter load), or your own server (more expensive, can have a heavier load).

This has all really got to get integrated into the catalyst wiki somehow...

[ghenry]

Did you see http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/wiki/Dreamhost?

Also, try Catalyst In A Box and http://use.perl.org/~jk2addict/journal/28071

HTH.

[tphyahoo]

I er... write the Dreamhost entry. :)

But I didn't get as far with this as I wanted, you notice it kind of trails off inconclusively...

Working with some of the other #catalysters to get this right... more soon...

[ghenry]

Doh. Sorry mate. I completely missed that one ;-)